bigswede2002

A Bulgarian version of "Ola kala": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KrQSYaN8w And a bi-lingual Israeli version: Best, Eva

Hi everyone, I'm writing in English so that everyone can understand. In Israel there are many Hebrew-language covers of Dalaras songs, from the 70's and forwards. Jews from the Middle East, as well as Sephardic Jews from Turkey and the Balkans have a great love for Greek "laika", and Greek music was played at weddings and other family celebrations long before Dalaras, Glykeria etc. started performing at concerts in Israel. Israeli Middle Eastern singers, especially those from a Yemenite background, recorded many Greek melodies with Hebrew lyrics. This was a kind of "backyard" record industry, with cassettes sold at bus stations and market stalls (think "sound of Omonia"), and the "Mediterranean-Middle Eastern" music mix was much looked down upon by middle-class European Israelis. Now in 2010, attitudes have changed and Greek-style music is the most popular music in Israel, featured on TV and festivals all over the country. So, in a way, these Israeli recordings which seem (and often are) derivative, paved the way for Dalaras' enormous popularity in Israel. The same goes for Glykeria...many Israelis already knew the classic Greek laika tunes she performs from listening to Greek artists who made a career in Israel, like Trifonas and Aris San, as well as listening to imported records with Kazantzidis and Angelopoulos.. Aris San: Angelopoulos at the "Plaka" club in Tel Aviv: "The King" Zohar Argov: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zohar_Argov Argov performing at a family occasion/party: "Ima tova" ("Charokopou" 1943-1953 ) with Zohar Argov: http://www.hebrewsongs.com/?song=imatova "Kach ovrim chayai" ("Ach o baglamas"): http://www.hebrewsongs.com/?song=kachovrimchayay Another Israeli Yemenite singer, Haim Moshe with "Toda" ("Ola kala"): Shlomi Shabat (of Turkish descent) together with Itzik Kalah (from Iraqi Kurdistan) in a song associated with Dalaras: Yehuda Poliker, son of Greek Holocaust survivors, whose 1980's covers of Dalaras' tunes made Greek music mainstream in Israel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krw-Xd7OdHQ And the Sephardi Shabbat song that Kougioumtzis used for "Ta prota logia": Best, Eva

Δεν ξέρω αν μπήκε στο σωστό topic...Πάντως, εδώ είναι το ρεπορτάζ για το Νταλάρα στο Ισραήλ από το youtube, χάρη στο χρήστη sagapo: http://www.youtube.com/user/sagapo4 Ζητώ συγνώμη αν τα κομμάτια αυτά είναι ήδη γνωστά στο φόρουμ, έχω καιρό να διαβάσω τα μηνύματα. Εύα

A few more covers of Dalaras songs: an Israeli and a Bulgarian version of "Ola kala": http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEoYQ_sB7s http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=69BYnseEiKA http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=UppfEsoX_cc Best, Eva

Hi everyone, I thought you might enjoy this videoclip from 1987, showing Dalaras with popular Israeli musician Yehuda Poliker (of Greek origin). Poliker recorded some Hebrew-language versions of Dalaras songs on an album that became a great hit on the Israeli market: http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=tO_dtqy8JmM Apologies if this clip has already been posted. Best, Eva

Hi everyone, I'll write in English since I don't have Greek characters on this P.C., hope you don't mind. I found some nice youtube videos with Glykeria singing in Hebrew, from "Matanah" ("Gift"), her latest double-CD for the Israeli market. Here she performs a Hebrew-language version of "Ta smirneika tragoudia" together with one of Israel's most beloved singers in the "Mediterranean" style, Shlomi Shabat (of Sephardi Turkish origin): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O6CQ3N9DkI And the Algerian (?) song "Ya Rayah" in Hebrew and Arabic. The Arab-language parts are sung by Emil Zrihan, a Morrocan-born synagogue "hazan" (something akin to "psaltis") and performer of classic Arab-andalusian music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfjh91KHMns Finally, Glykeria's electrifying performance of an Israeli "anthem", "Shabechi Yerushalayim": Best, Eva

Hi everyone, Here is an amateur video by Arab Israeli musician Helal Nassar. He performs the Dalaras song "Ach, o baglamas" in Arabic. I am quite sure that Nassar's tune has been inspired by the Hebrew-language version by Israeli Jewish (Yemenite) singer Zohar Argov. http://www.hebrewsongs.com/?song=kachovrimchayay Best, Eva

Γεια σας, Ευχαριστώ για τις θαυμάσιες φωτογραφίες! Η συναυλία στην Καισάρια θα πρέπει να ήταν το κάτι άλλο, είναι και το μέρος μαγικό. Σχετικά με τα σχόλια του Αποστόλη, η σιωπή των ελληνικών media σχετικά με την αγάπη των Ισραηλινών για την ελληνική μουσική είναι όντως αξιοπερίεργη. Όχι μόνο η Γλυκερία, αλλά δεκάδες Έλληνες καλλιτέχνες εμφανίζονται κάθε χρόνο σε κέντρα και σε συναυλίες στο Ισραήλ, ήδη από την δεκαετία του 60, που ο ’ρις Σαν έκανε μεγάλη καριέρα στο Ισραήλ. Ένας φίλος μου, που ο (Έλληνας ορθόδοξος) πατέρας του είχε ένα ελληνικό κέντρο στη Haifa, μου έγραψε πως ο Λουκάς Νταράλας τραγούδησε σ' αυτό το κέντρο. Μαλίστα είχε μαζί του τον Γιώργο, που ήταν τότε έφηβος. Ξέρει κανένας από σας τίποτα σχετικά με αυτό; Πάντως η Γλυκερία έχει ηχογραφήσει μερικά πολύ ωραία τραγούδια στα εβραϊκά, με καλή προφορά όπως μπορώ να κρίνω εγώ. Τα τραγούδια που διαλέγει είναι από διάφορα είδη ισραηλινής μουσικής, ίσως με κάποια προτίμηση στο είδος που λένε "ανατολίτικη" μουσική στο Ισραήλ. Ένα παράδειγμα είναι το Shabechi Yerushalayim του Avihu Medina, ο οποίος είναι ένας από τους πιο γνωστούς συνθέτες στο Ισραήλ: http://www.hebrewsongs.com/song-shabechiye...erushalayim.htm Είναι ένα πλέον κλασσικό τραγούδι, με πολλές εκτελέσεις...από "γνήσια" ανατολίτικη, όπως το πρώτο με τον Ofer Levi, μέχρι hip hop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2kIszXVl4U Ένα άλλο ομορφότατο τραγούδι είναι το "Etzlenu bikfar Todra" του Shlomo Bar, που το τραγουδάει η Γλυκερία με πολλή ευαισθησία: http://www.hebrewsongs.com/?song=kfartodra Σιντί με τα τραγούδια αυτά υπάρχουν σε ισραηλινές ιστοσελίδες όπως το παρακάτω: http://www.israel-music.com/glykeria/ Εύα

Γεια σας, Δεν έχω να προσθέσω κανένα διαμάντι. Απλώς θα ήθελα να ευχαριστήσω το Θανάση κι όλους τους άλλους για τις πολύτιμες πληροφορίες που έχουν προσφέρει και συνεχίζουν να προσφέρουν σ' αυτήν την ενότητα. Είναι ένας πραγματικός θησαυρός από διαμάντια, κι ένας πολύ καλός οδηγός για όσους δεν άκουσαν/αγόρασαν αυτούς τους δίσκους όταν πρωτοβγήκαν. Τώρα αν μπορείτε να μου πείτε πού να βρω τα λεφτά να αγοράσω αυτά τα σιντί, θα είμαι ακόμα πιο ευγνώμων! ;-) Eva

Hi Marina, You wrote: However, I think that your version γύφτισσα μαϊμου is not μάνα μου Ελλάς, but the person who is being deceived, cheated, denigrated etc. is a bit of a stretch. I think it's much simpler: just "a cunning" gypsy". That is q quite plausible translation, I just didn't think of it! It would mean that "giftissa maimou" is in vocative case here...the speaker is calling "mana mou ellas" two derogatory words that have the connotations of crafty, cunning, mean, dirty, shabby etc. It's probably the most logical as well, given the structure of the phrase...as you notice both Geske, you and myself had to expand this elliptical phrase quite a bit in order to offer our various translations. Another interpretation of στο παζάρι με πήρες would be that Greece "sold out" her children...that is, she took them to the bazaar for ξεπούλημα. The Stavropoulos dictionary gives the following meaning for ξεπουλώ (φθηνά) sell off, sell out and a secondary meaning μεταφορικά (με αντάλλαγμα) barter/bargain away, (προδίνω) sell out, as in ξεπούλησε τη χώρα στους ξένους If you consider that a bazaar is where you sell off things cheaply, it kind of fits that "mana Ellas" would take the "speaker" of the poem to the bazaar to sell him out....but that's just my interpretation, of course. Eva

Hi everyone, I'm not a native speaker either, but I have a suggestion concerning the translation of γύφτισσα μαϊμου. I think it could refer to the "speaker" of the poem/lyrics as well. That is, γύφτισσα μαϊμου is not μάνα μου Ελλάς, but the person who is being deceived, cheated, denigrated etc. So, instead of: και στο παζάρι με πήρες || and to the bazaar you took me γύφτισα μαιμού || as a gypsy woman takes a monkey we would have: and to the bazar you took me, and let me dance like a monkey gypsy woman (monkey imitating/impersonating a Gypsy woman) As I'm sure Geske knows, in older times many Gypsies would make a living (at bazars, panegiria etc.) by playing popular tunes on the defi and letting a monkey dance. From what I have understood, this monkey would often imitate human beings, for example a "giftissa" dancing the tsifte-teli (a classic example of Gypsy "exotism" in Greece and elsewhere). Apart from the historical references, this interpretation would also tie in with the general theme of denigration and humiliation which characterizes this song. Both giftissa and maimou are nouns, which makes the combination a bit unusual (you'd expect an adjective here) but these combinations are not unusual in Greek, as in παιδί θαύμα, which means wonder kid, exceptional child...a child that is like a wonder, or in this case, a monkey that is like a Gypsy woman. It would be interesting to hear a native speaker's take on this! P.S. μαϊμού is often used to denote something "fake" or inauthentic, as in fake Rayban sunglasses. However, "by playing a fake Gypsy woman" doesn't really fit with the rest of the syntax, since "με πήρες στο παζάρι" can only mean "you took me to the bazaar". "You picked me up from the bazaar" would be "με πήρες από το παζάρι", and I'm not even sure if that's the expression most commonly used for "picking up someone". Eva

Γεια σας, Δεν ξέρω αν κανένας άλλος έχει στείλει αυτό το link στο παρελθόν, αν είναι έτσι ζητάω συγνώμη! Είναι άρθρα από την ετήσια "ρεμπέτικη" συνάντηση στην Ύδρα, με πολλά ενδιαφέροντα θέματα. http://www.geocities.com/HydraGathering/ar...rchivelist.html Το φετινό πρόγραμμα φαίνεται εξίσου ενδιαφέρον: The Sixth International Conference on "Researching Rebetiko: Present Projects and Future Prospects" "ETHNICITY, NATIONALISMS AND DIASPORAS" The Old High School - Island of Hydra Thursday 12 - Monday 16 October 2006 Conference Programme The Conference programme will include the following elements: PAPERS ALI FUAT AYDIN and CENK GÜRAY [izmir and Ankara]: "The Role of Greek Composers in the Development of Classical Ottoman Music" ANNA BABALI [university of Surrey]: "Constructions of Greek Musical Nationalism" HANK BRADLEY: Three Greek Musicians in the USA ETTORE CASTAGNA: "On the Calabrian lyra" [Not confirmed] ED EMERY [institute of Rebetology, London]: "The Music of Dimitris Gongos ('Bayaderas')" NORMAN HEALY [sOAS, London]: "An introduction to (Anatolian) Zeybeks and Zeybek music" NIKOS POLITIS [Athens]: "The Zeibekiko and Hasapiko dances in the Rebetika songs genre" HARIS SARRIS [university of Athens]: "The influence of the tsambouna bagpipe on the lyra and the violin: searching for the 'heart' of the music of the Aegean" OLAF SCHÄFER [berlin]: "I Chira": The first bouzouki-recording in Germany 1917 YONA STAMATIS [university of Michigan]: "Mikis Theodorakis and the popularity of the Entechno Laiko Tragoudi" KIRSTI THORSEN [Athens]: A paper on Seferis and Greek music ZAHARR A. MANEVI (ZAHAROULA) [university of Economics, Izmir]: "Memoirs of a Greek Dancer" FILMS Whose Song Is This? (Adela Peeva, 2003) The Hydra Rebetiko Gathering (Emilio della Chiesa, 2006) Musicians of the World: Greek Music in Israel (Leonidas Antonopoulos, 2006) The Wonder of Görlitz (Konstantinos Toubekis, 2006) Εύα

Hi Vitaly, You wrote: >As matter of fact, another popular Israeli musician, Haim Moshe, has >many those Greek tunes in his repertoir, including the famous Toda on >the tune of Ola Kala - the lyrics has nothing to do with the original stixoi (this tune I heard first from him, not from Dalaras ). Glad you mentioned Haim Moshe, he is one of my favourite Israeli singers, with a great voice in the Jannis Parios/Poulopoulos vein. Moshe must be the king of Greek-Israeli music, he has done many adaptations/covers of Greek songs, which are often very well performed. Of course, he also has a lot of original Israeli material in his large repertoire, both traditional Yemenite songs (his family comes from Yemen) and more pop-oriented stuff. Another good Dalaras adaptation is his version of "Me telioses". Here is a clip with Moshe and another famous Yemenite artist, Yoav Yitzhak, performing 'live': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXb_GqyzO1s If you look to the right on this youtube page, you'll find many other video clips with Israeli "Oriental" artists...many with tunes of Greek origin! With regards to the Hebrew lyrics to these songs, I think that most often they don't have any direct connection to the Greek lyrics, simply because the Israeli lyricists are not fluent in Greek. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter that much-after all, the fine lyrics that Greek "stichourgi " wrote for some of he Greek "Indian" covers of the 60's still make these songs very enjoyable, although the Greek text don't have the same content as the original Indian (Urdu) one. >As for the going in circles regarding adaptation of music for prayers: >another song from a Haim Moshe CD is Hala, Hala put on the tune >Tragoudistis (my knowledge of Hebrew is quite limited, but I suspect >that the Hebrew lyrics have something to do with Shabbat (maybe I am >mistaken). From what I have read, Musica Mizrahit texts often take their inspiration from traditional religious material, and sometimes even incorporate whole passages from religious texts of various kinds. One example is the well-known "Shabechi Yerushalyaim" with music my Avihu Medina, which takes its text from the Psalms: http://www.hebrewsongs.com/song-shabechiye...erushalayim.htm There is actually a Greek connection to this song (I'm not totally O.T. here!)...as seen on the "Mousiki tou kosmou" documentary, Glykeria has made this song "her own" and always performs it for her Israeli audiences (there's a great version on her Israeli Philharmonic CD). >As for the 500 year Spanish heritage being a myth - I remember reading >in a book about Salonika Jews that in 18th century when the first >Spanish ambassadors and travellers started to appear in this part of >the Ottoman Empire, they were amazed at local Jews speaking a pure >Castilian language in daily life - it survived at least 3 centuries, why >those doubts about survival of music? It's not that long in historical >terms. On the other hand, borrowing tunes from the Balcan people and >viceversa is quite possible. You're absolutely right concerning language and culture, which were preserved to an amazing degree by the Sephardi Jews. The researchers' point is that there are no documented Soanish medieval sources for the *music*, that is, the melodies. The melodies which have been identified are all much later, and mostly taken/influenced from the musical traditions of the countries where the Sephardim migrated to. Eva

Hi again, I guess I should have written in English as well, since some members might not be entirely fluent in Greek! Here is some additional information on "Ta prota logia" and its Jewish counterparts. There are actually two Jewish songs to this melody, one is the already mentioned "Los Bilbilicos", which is in Judeo-Spanish, and the other is in Hebrew, "Tzur Mi-Shelo". "Tzur Mi-Shelo" is a traditional Sabbath table song: >This piece is part of the Shabbat Zemirot (Shabbat table songs) >composed and compiled between the 11th and 16th centuries under >the guidance of Rabbis Isaac Luria and Israel Najara. Utilizing singing, >these songs are meant to reflect upon and praise the Shabbat. This >particular melody comes from the Spanish Jewish heritage. There are apparently several melodies used to accompany these ages-old Hebrew lyrics, and one of them is the Sephardic melody we also find in "Los Bilbilicos" and "Ta prota logia". If you scroll down a bit on this web side you'll find downloads with several "Tzur Mi-shelo" versions set to different melodies: http://www.hacdalbany.com/tefilaschmidt2006.html (note the quite apparent English pronunciation of the Hebrew lyrics on these clips!;-)) While googling I also found a lovely rendition of "Tzur Mi-shelo", taken from the Iraqi-Indian Jewish tradition. This is not a Sephardic melody (the Iraqi Jews have no connection to medieval Spain), although in Israel today "Sephardim" is often used to denote all Jews (about 50%of the population) who are of non-European descent (that is, those who have their roots in the Middle East/Moslem countries or in the Eastern Mediterranean). http://www.longislandtraditions.org/artist...ic/musleah.html As for the melody to the Sephardi version, the general consensus among researchers of Sephardi music is that none of the melodies of the traditional/popular songs which have been collected and recorded can be dated back to medieval Spain. The large majority of Sephardi melodies are much later and most often taken from the local traditions of the countries/areas where the Sephardi Jews lived after the expulsion (the Ottoman empire, North Africa)...the "500-years old Spanish heritage" is actually a bit of a myth! According to Israeli musicologist and Ladino expert Edwin Serrousi, the melody to "Los bilbilicos"/"Tzur Mi-shelo" might even be a Greek or Bulgarian liturgical melody (this came up when the song was discussed on a forum for Balkan music where I participate)! I have two quite lovely renditions of "Tzur Mi-shelo", both with a quite prominent Greek/Eastern Mediterranean flavour. One is by Ofri Eliaz, the other is a 'live' rendition by the great Israeli singer Itzik Kalah. In Kalah's version, you'll even hear some bouzouki licks, thanks to Aris (!) Nahum, one of Israel's most well-known bouzouki players. If you're interested, I'd be glad to post these renditions as mp3s. As for the Dalaras-Israel-Israeli music connection, it was quite prominently featured in the ERT documentary on Greek music in Israel ("Mousiki tou kosmou"), which was aired in May 2006. There was a longish interview with Dalaras about his Israeli experience, as well as clips from the concert with the Philharmonic. In the same program, a very popular Israeli artist of Sephardi Greek origin, Yehuda Poliker, also referred several times to Dalaras and their collaborations. Poliker, who started out as a rock artist, has recorded several songs from Dalaras' repertoire in Hebrew, on albums that sold platinum in Israel. This is actually a very common practice-tradition in Israeli popular music, mostly in what the Israelis call Musica Mizrahit (the music of Sephardi/Oriental Jews). In this genre you'll find literally hundreds of (often very enjoyable) adaptations of Greek laika songs (including many Dalaras songs). So I guess when Dalaras recorded a popular Sephardi tune, he really went full circle! Hope I didn't tire you all with these historical-musicological excursions!;-) Eva

Γεια σας, Μπαίνω κάπως αργά στη συζήτηση, αλλά θα ήθελα να προσθέσω μερικά λόγια για το εβραϊκό τραγούδι (ή ύμνος) που έχει την ίδια μελωδία με "Τα πρώτα λόγια". Υπάρχει σε δύο εκδοχές, σε Ladino (ισπανοεβραϊκά) ως "Los Bilbilicos" και σε εβραϊκά ως "Tzur Mi-chelo". Για την τελευταία έχω βρει το μερικές πληροφορίες που επιβεβαιώνουν αυτά που έχουν ήδη γράψει ο Fadi και η Μαρίνα. This piece is part of the Shabbat Zemirot (Shabbat table songs) composed and compiled between the 11th and 16th centuries under the guidance of Rabbis Isaac Luria and Israel Najara. Utilizing singing, these songs are meant to reflect upon and praise the Shabbat. This particular melody comes from the Spanish Jewish heritage. Εδώ είναι οι στίχοι στα εβραϊκα: Tzur mi-shelo akhalnu barkhu emunai savanu vhotarnu ki-dvar Adonai Hazan et olamo, roenu avinu Akhalnu mi-lakhmo u-mi-yeno shatinu al ken nodeh li-shmo u-nhallelo bfinu Amarnu vaninu ein kadosh kAdonai Bshir vkol todah nevarekh lEloheinu Al eretz hemdah tovah she-hinhil lavoteinu U-mazon vtzedah hisbiah lnafsheinu Hasdo gavar aleinu vemet Adonai Rahem bhasdekha al amkha Tzureinu Al Tziyon mishkan kvodekha zvul beit tifarteinu U-ven David avdekha yavo vyigaleinu Ruah apeinu mshiah Adonai Yibaneh ha-mikdash ir Tziyon tmaleh Vsham nashir shir hadash u-virnanah sham naaleh Ha-rahaman ha-nikdash yitbarakh vyitaleh Al kos yayin maleh kvirkat Adonai Δε βρήκα μετάφραση, δυστυχώς! Όσο για τη μελωδία, δεν πρέπει να είναι τόσο παλιά...απ' ότι ισχυρίζονται οι ερευνητές που ασχολούνται με τη μουσική των Σεφαραδιτών Εβραίων, οι μελωδίες αυτών των παραδοσιακών τραγουδιών είναι πολύ μεταγενέστερες, παρόλο που μερικοί από τους στίχους έχουν επιβιώσει από τον καιρό που οι Σεφαραδίτες Εβραίοι ακόμα ζούσαν στην Ισπανία (πριν το 1492). Η ερευνήτρια-τραγουδίστρια Judith Cohen γράφει συγκεκριμένα για το "Los Bilbilicos": It's common to go on about Sephardic tunes being brought out of medieval Spain along with (often apocryphal) keys and whatever else could be carried. However, tunes like "Los Bilbilicos" are much later than that and in any case we HAVE no documented Jewish music from medieval Spain or medieval anywhere else. I'm always vastly amused at people's solemn assurances that such and such a tune "definitely is from medieval Spain". Έχω μια πολύ ωραία ηχογράφηση του Tzur Mi-shelo, που μπορώ να παραθέσω σε μορφή mp3, αν ενδιεφέρεται κανείς να την ακούσει. Το τραγουδάει η Ofri Eliaz στο σιντί της "Ladino Songs". Έχω επίσης μια ζωντανή ηχογράφηση με τον θαυμάσιο Ισραηλινό τραγουδιστή Itzik Kalah, μια ηχογράφηση με μια κάπως ελληνική χροιά. Στο τραγούδι αυτό ο Kalah συνοδεύεται από το γνωστό (στο Ισραήλ, εννοώ!) μπουζουξή Aris (!) Nahum, που ρίχνει κάτι όμορφες πενιές, κάτι που κάνει και στα υπόλοιπα τραγούδια αυτής της συναυλίας, που είναι γεμάτη από ελληνικά τραγούδια ερμηνευμένα στα εβραϊκά από τον Kalah. Και από αυτό το σινί μπορώ να στείλω μερικά κομμάτια, αν θέλετε. Εύα