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Micki

Δυο Παλικάρια απ'τ'Αϊβαλί

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Δυο Παλικάρια απ'τ'Αϊβαλί // Two palikaria from Aivali

Μουσική: Απόστολος Καλδάρας // Music: Apostolos Kaldaras

Στίχοι: Πυθαγόρας // Lyrics: Pithagoras

Ερμηνευτές: Χαρούλα Αλεξίου

Δυο παλικάρια απ'τ'Αϊβαλί // Two palikaria * from Aivali

μπήκαν στο στέκι του Μπαλή // went to Balis café

μπήκαν στο στέκι του Μπαλή παρέα // they went to Balis café together

Κι είχανε και τα δυο σεβντά // And they both carried a torch for someone

κι ήπιαν δυο θάλασσες πιοτά // and they both drank gallons

για μια γυναίκα τ'Αϊβαλιού ωραία // over a beautiful woman from Aivali

Πίνανε και καπνίζανε // They drank and they smoked

και την αγάπη βρίζανε... // and they cursed love

Δυο παλικάρια απ'τ'Αϊβαλί // Two palikaria from Aivali

μπήκαν στο στέκι του Μπαλή // went to Balis café

και δεν αφήσανε γιαλί στο ράφι // they didnt leave one glass on the shelves

Για τη ζημιά στο μαγαζί // For the damage in the café

δώσαν στον γέρο το Μπαλή // they gave the old Balis

έναν τουρβά ασήμι και χρυσάφι // a bag of silver and gold

Πίνανε και καπνίζανε // They drank and they smoked

και την αγάπη βρίζανε... // and they cursed love

* palikaria : in the Dutch translation I have it says young men (jongemannen). Another suggestion is : young bucks. Personally I prefer to leave it palikaria.

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So often I'd heard it Alexiou singing without having even an rough idea ! Thank you a lot for this translation, Micki !

Herbert

:)

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Not perhaps "were drinking and smoking and cursinng...."?

Palikaria is here better than anything others, since this seems to have an additional meaning in Greek, I think. Just of being not only young, but brave, healthy and sympathic - something in this direction, am I OK?

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The ending ...ανε is 3rd person plural, imperfect, as far as I know, so I think, Micki's translation is correct in this point.

Herbert

:)

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Dear Micki

It`s really nice to see that the songs about mikra asia are being tranlated. Anyway, i just wanted to note that, since the songs of asia minor sometimes has some local words, it is of course sometimes difficult to understand them. Because they are only known and used by the greeks of asia minor , diladi romyosini.... In dio palikari ap tin ayvali, it says `ke ihane ke ta dio sevda` ... well in your translation its something different i think :blink:

sevda means love in turkish. and this word is commonly used by the romyosini, you may have noticed it in some of rebetika songs... so here, the song writer wanted to say that `and they both were in love` (maybe they were in love with the same woman, o theos kseri)

auto ithela na sas po. :)

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Dear Bici

Welcome to the forum, and many thanks for the information on mikra asia, it makes translating the songs (which I know is very difficult from having some involvement in it) much easier!. I know Micki will be able to explain this when she's next here, but until then, don't worry too much about 'sevda'. This translation is quite right, but it's nice to have confirmation. To 'carry a torch' is an English expression meaning 'to be in love with'. Better still it is usually used to describe situations where the love isn't returned (or at least you don't yet know if it is!) which I think is right for this song.

Kate

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When I was translating this song and looked up the word σεβντά, I found what I wrote in the translation of the song. To be honest, because I found it in the dictionnary, it didn't cross my mind that it could be a Turkish word.

And I interpreted like Kate said: unanswered love.

It made sense to me in this song.

Well, unanswered or not, they were in love.

Micki

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Welcome also from me, Bici, to the forum ! :music:

I recently made a journey back to the early times of Γιώργος Νταλάρας and landed at Μίκρα Ασία. For me these songs are the only opportunity to be led into the old world of Asia Minor.

Micki, thank you for your translation of this song here in the forum. Without it I wouldn't dare to post here a German translation here:

---

Zwei junge Männer aus Aivali

traten in Balis Lokal,

kamen zusammen in Balis Lokal,

waren beide richtig drauf

und hauten sich die Hucke voll

wegen der Schönen aus Aivali.

Sie tranken und pafften

und fluchten über Liebe...

Zwei junge Männer aus Aivali

kamen in Balis Lokal,

und zerschepperten das Glas hinterm Tresen.

Für den Schaden im Laden

gaben sie Bali, dem Alten,

einen Sack Silber und Gold.

---

As Kate already mentioned and as I understood it too, they both were in love (unanswered) for the same woman.

Herbert

:music:

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Herbert, ich muss zugeben, das ist der erste deutsche Text seit Jahren, den ich mit einem klugen Wörterbuch lesen muss... Ich werde noch sicher Deine HIlfe brauchen!

In the meantime look into "O metoikos", the song "Itan anthropos dikos mas", this one I mentioned in the "Thesauros", too. This one we don't have in translation, I think.

Good morning!

Welcome, BIci!

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Kein Wunder, Olga, ich habe ja zum Teil sehr umgangssprachliche Wendungen benutzt. Ich weiß nicht, ob du alles im Wörterbuch findest.

'richtig drauf sein' : emotional aufgeladen sein, Lust haben etwas anzustellen, oder ähnliches. Die Formulierung lässt offen, was die beiden vorhaben, aber sie haben etwas vor.

'sich die Hucke voll hauen' oder 'sich die Hucke voll saufen' ( =sich betrinken, sich voll laufen lassen) ist ein Ausdruck, der sicher nicht überall im deutschen Sprachraum gebräuchlich ist. In Süddeutschland oder Österreich versteht man es vielleicht sogar nicht. Es ist aber die Sprache, die zum Beispiel im Ruhrgebiet gesprochen wird.

Die griechische Wendung ήπιαν θάλασσες πιοτά finde ich übrigens ganz wunderbar. Das englische 'drink gallons' kannte ich bislang ebenfalls nicht, ist aber , denke ich, eine passende Übersetzung.

Wie wär's denn mal mit einer österreichischen Version, Michael ? So mit Wiener Schmäh vielleicht ?

Herbert

:music:

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Somit, Herbert:

zerscheppen = zerschlagen

paffen = rauchen?

Und was ist Hucke?

Wegen 'ηπιαν θάλασσες πιοτά" gibt's im Polnischen eine genaue Entsprechung "wypili morze alkoholu", zum Englischen werde ich mich noch melden, soll mir was einfallen.....

Und, hast Du schon mal zum "Metoikos" geguckt? Michael, Du?

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Ja, Olga, 'paffen' = rauchen.

und bitte 'zerscheppern' (nicht zerscheppen)!

Das Wort 'Hucke' ? Ich muss zugeben, dass ich darüber zuerst nachdenken musste. Denn so allein wird es, glaube ich gar nicht gebraucht. Mein Englischwörterbuch nennt das Wort aber (erstaunlicherweise) und nennt dafür : 'pannier', das kann ein Lastkorb oder eine Packtache sein. Mehr im Gebrauch im Deutschen ist heute noch das Wort 'Huckepack', es meint , dass eine Sache auf oder in etwas transportiert wird (z.B. Autos auf Eisenbahn, Kind auf den Schultern).

Man kann vielleicht sagen, der Ausdruck 'und sie hauten sich die Hucke voll' benutzt also ein Bild (das Vollstopfen einer Packtasche) für das Betrinken.

Zu dem Lied aus O metoikos: ich kenne es leider noch nicht, Olga, aber ich hoffe, dass ich dafür demnächst etwas Zeit habe.

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One word for now: this τουρβά has the same meaning then in (Asia-MInor) Greek, Turkish and Polish. We have "torba" here.... :rolleyes:

What comes as next?

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Δυο Παλληκάρια απ' το Αϊβαλί_____||_____ Two palicaria from Aivali

Στίχοι: Πυθαγόρας _____||_____ Music: Apostolos Kaldaras

Μουσική: Απόστολος Καλδάρας _____||_____ Lyrics: Pythagoras

Τραγουδά η Χάρις Αλεξίου _____||_____ Sung by Charis Aleksiou

Δυο παλληκάρια απ'τ'Αϊβαλί_____||_____ Two palicaria* from Aivali*

μπήκαν στο στέκι του Μπαλή_____||_____ came into Mpali's joint

μπήκαν στο στέκι του Μπαλή παρέα._____||_____ came into Mpali's joint together

Κι είχανε και τα δυο σεβντά_____||_____ And they both suffered from heart-break

κι ήπιαν δυο θάλασσες πιοτά_____||_____ and they drank two seas of drink

για μια γυναίκα τ'Αϊβαλιού ωραία._____||_____ all for one beautiful woman from Aivali

Πίνανε και καπνίζανε _____||_____ They kept drinking, they kept smoking

και την αγάπη βρίζανε..._____||_____ and they kept abusing love...

Δυο παλληκάρια απ'τ'Αϊβαλί_____||_____ Two palicaria from Aivali

μπήκαν στο στέκι του Μπαλή_____||_____ came into Mpali's joint

και δεν αφήσανε γυαλί στο ράφι._____||_____ and left not one glass on the shelf *

Για τη ζημιά στο μαγαζί_____||_____ For the damage to the place

δώσαν στον γέρο το Μπαλή_____||_____ they gave to old man Mpali

έναν τουρβά ασήμι και χρυσάφι._____||_____ a purse full of silver and gold

Πίνανε και καπνίζανε _____||_____ They kept drinking, they kept smoking

και την αγάπη βρίζανε..._____||_____ and they kept swearing at love...

* Palicari: a brave & beautiful young man.

* Aivali: a town in the Smyrna region

* Left not one glass... - ...silver and gold: i.e. they smashed the place to bits, and then paid for the damage - a traditional, though not too wide-spread, way for a manly man to show (and to work off) some great grief.

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Geske, this is a fun song! Thanks for translating.

I have one correction: they were cursing love, abusing is something different.

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Geske, this meaning might be included in the dictionaries, but a dictionary can often be a treacherous companion.

"Abusing love" does not sound right - it is not used in conversation, although can be in a literary work, meaning some kind of cruelty or perversion.

When you say "calling bad names" does it mean that "he abused her" = he called her bad names, or insulted her" ? No way, this is just plain wrong.

You can say "abusing language" = cursing, saying words you can't write such as the 4-letter word, or, less common, abusing grammar.

However, this is a literary expression describing a behaviour, not the act of cursing itself.

Anyway, you can NEVER say "abusing love" in this song's context.

And what's wrong with "cursing"?

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Well, the problem is that I want a verb for "calling bad names", and in Dutch we have "schelden", "uitfoeteren" and a couple more, but in English I can't find the right one. "Cursing" is for witches :wow: but 'abusing' gets misinterpreted, so I'll have to do something about it. I'll get down Roget in a minute and see.

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No, one common usage of cursing is the same as "swearing". It feels right to my ear (although English is my second language but I live, work and (sometimes) get entertained in English for 15 years).

And for confirmation here are examples from Longman:

To say or think bad things about someone or something because they make you angry: "I cursed myself for not buying a phrase-book".

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I've corrected a greek typo (not my own mistake, straight from the record): it had γιαλί where it should have been γυαλί.

And I've put "swearing at" for βρίζω, after chewing on it for a bit it's the one I like best (for the moment).

And btw

what an incredibly wonderful record this is........... I was listening to it just now and it's so..... so........

.................................................. :naughty:

:music:

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