Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post I had this terrible fit on song-translating tonight - well, some people get hay fever, I'm counting my blessings here. Anyway, I thought I might as well post the results. Who knows, someone might actually read them... But I'm warning you, I did them all in a row, one after the other, and didn't even re-read properly, so it's gonna be a real mess. Here goes the first. Can't believe we never did this one in the forum. It's indispensable, that's what it is. ΜΑΝΑ ΜΟΥ ΕΛΛΑΣ || Greece, my mother Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: Stavros Ksarchakos Στίχοι: Νίκος Γκάτσος || Lyrics: Nikos Gatsos Δεν έχω σπίτι πίσω για να ρθω || I have no home to go back to ούτε κρεβάτι για να κοιμηθώ || nor bed to go to sleep in δεν έχω δρόμο ούτε γειτονιά || I have no street nor neighbourhood να τραγουδήσω μια Πρωτομαγιά || to go singing on the First of May. Τα ψεύτικα τα λόγια τα μεγάλα || Those lying words, those big words, μου τα 'πες με το πρώτο σου το γάλα || you fed them to with your first milk Μα τώρα που ξυπνήσανε τα φίδια || But now that the snakes woke up, εσύ φοράς τα αρχαία σου στολίδια || you wear your old jewellery και δε δακρύζεις ποτέ σου || and you never shed a tear μάνα μου Ελλάς || my mother Ellas που τα παιδιά σου σκλάβους ξεπουλάς || who sells your children as slaves. Τα ψεύτικα τα λόγια τα μεγάλα || Those lying words, those big words, μου τα 'πες με το πρώτο σου το γάλα || you fed them to with your first milk Κι όταν εγώ στη μοίρα μου μιλούσα || And while I was speaking to my fate είχες ντυθεί τα αρχαία σου τα λούσα || you had dressed up in your ancient finery και στο παζάρι με πήρες || and to the bazaar you took me γύφτισα μαιμού || as a gypsy woman takes a monkey Ελλάδα Ελλάδα μάνα του καημού || Ellada, Ellada, mother of grief. Τα ψεύτικα τα λόγια τα μεγάλα || Those lying words, those big words, μου τα 'πες με το πρώτο σου το γάλα || you fed them to with your first milk Μα τώρα που η φωτιά φουντώνει πάλι || But now that the fire is flaring up again εσύ κοιτάς τα αρχαία σου τα κάλλη || you look to your old charming tricks και στις αρένες του κόσμου || and in the arenas of the world μάνα μου Ελλάς || my mother Ellas το ίδιο ψέμα πάντα κουβαλάς || the same old lie you tell forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post Next! ΣΤΟΥ ΘΩΜΑ || At Thomas' Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: Stavros Ksarchakos Στίχοι: Κώστας Φέρρης || Lyrics: Kostas Ferris Έλα απόψε στου Θωμά || Come along tonight to Thomas' place να σου παίξω μπαγλαμά || Let me play the baglamas for you να κατέβουν οι αγγέλοι || Let the angels come down να χορέψουν τσιφτετέλι || to dance the tsifteteli κι αν μερακλωθείς πολύ || and if you're really in the mood και σ' αρέσει το βιολί || and if you like the violin με βιολί σαντουροβιόλι || to the violin, to the santouriviolin, θα χορέψουν οι διάβολοι || the devils will dance Στου Θωμά το μαγαζί || At Thomas' magazi θα τη βρούμε όλοι μαζί || we will find it all together μα στο νόημα για να 'μπεις || but for you to really get it θα σου εξηγήσει ο Μπάμπης || Babis will explain it to you του Γιωργάκη η δοξαριά || Giorgaki's fiddlestick θα σου κόψει τη μιλιά || will leave you speechless κι η Μαρίκα με το ντέφι || and Marika with her defi θα γελάει και θα σου γνέφει || will laugh and raise her hand to call you. Holy fiddlestick. When I think how long I was singing along to this without knowing what it was about! Well, better late than never. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post Yes, I know I posted this earlier today, but it fits here in the record, so I'll just paste it in again. ΤΗΣ ΑΜΥΝΗΣ ΤΑ ΠΑΙΔΙΑ || The boys in the army Μουσική: Παραδοσιακό, διασκευή: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: traditional, arranged by Stavros Ksarchakos. Στίχοι: Παραδοσιακό || Lyrics: traditional Μια μέρα θα το γράψει η ιστορία || One day History will write it down που έδιωξε απ' την Αθήνα τα θηρία || who kicked the big guys out of Athens, που έδιωξε βασιλείς και βουλευτάδες || who kicked out kings * and parliamentaries, τους ψευταράδες και τους μασκαράδες || those who told lies, those who wore masks. Και στην άμυνα εκεί όλοι οι αξιωματικοί || And there in the army are all the good guys πολεμάει κι ο Βενιζέλος || Venizelos * too is fighting που αυτός θα φέρει τέλος || the one who will bring it to an end και ο κάθε πατριώτης θα μας φέρουν την ισότης || and every single patriot, they will bring us Equality Η Παναγιά που στέκει στο πλευρό μας || The Holy Virgin is on our side δείχνει το δρόμο στο νέο στρατηγό μας || she shows the way to our young general τον ήρωα της εθνικής αμύνης || the hero of the nation's army που πολεμάει και διώχνει τους εχθρούς || who is fighting and beating the enemies. Της αμύνης τα παιδιά διώξανε το βασιλιά || The boys in the army, they kicked out the king και του δώσαν τα βρακιά του || and they handed him his trousers * για να πάει στη δουλειά του || that he might go off to work τον περίδρομο να τρώει με το ξένο του το σόι || that he might eat himself sick on his strange foreign food. Έλα να δεις σπαθιά και γιαταγάνια || Come on and look at the swords and sabres * που βγάζουν φλόγες και φτάνουν στα ουράνια || which spit fire and reach up to the skies εκεί ψηλά ψηλά στα σύνορά μας || up there, up, on our borders, τρέχει ποτάμι το αίμα του εχθρού || a river flows, the blood of our enemy. Της αμύνης τα παιδιά διώξανε το βασιλιά || The boys in army, they kicked out the king, της αμύνης το καπέλο έφερε το Βενιζέλο || the army's hat was put on by Venizelos, της αμύνης το σκουφάκι || the army's cap έφερε το Λευτεράκη || Lefteraki put it on || Notes. Kings: specifically, Constantine I, king of Greece 1913-17 and 1920-22. Venizelos: not the homonymous present minister of culture (who wouldn't pass the physical for any army), but the statesman, 1864-1936, born in Crete and started his career figthing Crete's way out of the Ottoman empire and into Greece. As prime minister under king Constantine, he disagreed with the king about who to support in WW1, and since he supported the winners, the king was ousted in 1917 (not permanently though). Venizelos later implemented the dream of taking Asia Minor into Greece, with disastrous results (for a description, listen to "Μικρά Ασία"). Trousers: I suspect this is about the "european trousers" versus the greek man's wear, either baggy trousers or pleat skirt. The first (bavarian) king of Greece, Otto, forced into exile in 1862, liked to wear the foustanella in Germany as sign of devotion to Greece. I don't know if Constantine did so as well. Sabre: actually the slightly curved turkish sabre, with the wide, flat, concave end, is often called yatagan in English too. Anyway, it's song you can't hear/read/sing/see often enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post Next is Imitlerim, which has no lyrics at all, for all he spends seven minutes singing it. Seven minutes. I remember the first time I saw it light up in the cd-player window. SEVEN minutes! Then, in the original record, comes Σαββατόβραδο στη Καισαριανή, which we are still waiting for someone to extract from the LP and turn into an mp3. So I skipped it, not to make the waiting more unbearable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post This one already has a translation in the forum, by Hedda, but I'm already disagreeing with what I replied to her there, so I just forgot it and started over. ΕΙΝΑΙ ΑΡΡΩΣΤΙΑ ΤΑ ΤΡΑΓΟΥΔΙΑ || The songs are sickness Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: Stavros Ksarchakos. Στίχοι: Μάνος Ελευθερίου || Lyrics: Manos Eleftheriou Είν' αρρώστια τα τραγούδια που αγαπάς να λέω || The songs that you love me to sing, they are a sickness, αναμμένο καρβουνάκι που κρατώ και κλαίω || a burning little coal that I am holding, and I cry. Ειν' αρρώστια τα τραγούδια τι θαρρείς || The songs are a sickness, what do you think? βρες αγάπες άλλες κόσμου να χαρείς || you found other loves of the world, to give. τα τραγούδια που έχουν αίμα και καρδιά || The songs that have blood and a heart ειν' αρρώστια που δε γίνεται καλά || are sicknesses that do not get well. Αφορμές μου δίνεις πάντα και σκοπούς ν' αρχίσω || You always give me pretexts, and reasons to start [singing] μα για ξένες υποθέσεις που μιλούν στραγγίζω || but those who speak of strange theories, I wring [their neck?!] Ειν' αρρώστια τα τραγούδια τι θαρρείς || The songs are a sickness, what do you think? βρες αγάπες άλλου κόσμου να χαρείς || you found other loves of the world, to give. τα τραγούδια που έχουν αίμα και καρδιά || The songs that have blood and a heart ειν' αρρώστια που δε γίνεται καλά || are sicknesses that do not get well. Σαν το σπίρτο που 'χει πέσει στο ξερό χορτάρι || Like a match that has fallen on the dry grass είναι κείνα τα τραγούδια που μας έχουν πάρει || are those songs that have taken hold of us Ειν' αρρώστια τα τραγούδια τι θαρρείς || The songs are a sickness, what do you think? βρες αγάπες άλλου κόσμου να χαρείς || you found other loves of the world, to give. τα τραγούδια που έχουν αίμα και καρδιά || The songs that have blood and a heart ειν' αρρώστια που δε γίνεται καλά || are sicknesses that do not get well. This song will always remind me of Eleni, who said to us once that the songs Dalaras sings are the wound and the balm at the same time - and that is so very right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post ΗΤΑΝΕ ΜΙΑ ΦΟΡΑ || Once upon a time there was Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: Stavros Ksarchakos Στίχοι: Κώστας Φέρρης || Lyrics: Kostas Ferris Ήτανε μια φορά μάτια μου κι έναν καιρό || Once upon a time, best beloved, there was μια όμορφη κυρά αρχόντισσα να σε χαρώ || a beautiful lady princess, let me tell you. Μια μικροπαντρεμένη κόρη ξανθή || She was a newly-married girl, golden-haired, τον κύρη της προσμένει βράδυ πρωί || waiting for her lord morning and night Ένα Σαββάτο βράδυ καλέ μια Κυριακή || One Saturday evening, oh yes, one Sunday, τον ήλιο το φεγγάρι παρακαλεί || to the sun and the moon she spoke, begging. Ήλιε μου φώτισέ τον φεγγάρι μου || My dear sun, light him, and you my dear moon, πάνε και μίλησέ του για χάρη μου || go and speak to him, for my sake. Γυρίζει κι αρμενίζει καλέ στα πέλαγα || He comes and goes, oh yes, on the high seas, τους πειρατές θερίζει καλέ και τους χαλά || he pirates he cut down, oh yes, he destroys them στον ήλιο στο φεγγάρι και στη βροχή || Under the sun and the moon, and in the rain και μένανε μ' αφήνει έρμη και μοναχή || and me, he left me desolate and lonely. Γαλέρα ανοίχτηκε μάτια μου με το βοριά || A galley set sail, best beloved, on the North wind στη μάχη ρίχτηκε ναι μάτια μου και στον καυγά || into battle it threw itself, yes beloved, into the fire Μέσα σ' ένα σινάφι πειρατικό || In the middle of a band of pirates είδα φωτιά ν' ανάβει και φονικό || I saw a fire flare up, and murder done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post This, too, already has a translation in the forum. But I know Micki does them for the same reason as I: to understand in the act of translating. So, she won't be mad at me (I hope...). Η ΝΥΧΤΑ || The night Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: Stavros Ksarchakos Στίχοι: Νίκος Γκάτσος || Lyrics: Nikos Gatsos Έσβησε τ' άστρο και το φεγγάρι || The star has gone out, and the moon, κι έγινε η νύχτα πικρή λαβωματιά || and the night has become deep black wound πού να 'ναι τώρα το παλικάρι || where would he be now, the palikari σε ποιο λιμάνι ποια θάλασσα πλατιά || in which far harbour, on which wide sea Στον κεραυνό και στη βροχή κάνω κρυφά μια προσευχή || In the thunderstorm and in the rain, I say a prayer secretly να 'χεις τον ήλιο συντροφιά στη συννεφιά || that you may have the sun for company among the clouds. Έκλεισαν όλες του κόσμου οι στράτες || They have shut down all the roads of the world χάθηκε η μέρα βασίλεψε το φως || the day has vanished, the light died down ρωτώ τη νύχτα και τους διαβάτες || and I am asking the night, and those who pass by πού να 'ναι ο φίλος πού να 'ναι ο αδερφός || where would he be, my friend, my brother. Στον κεραυνό και στη βροχή κάνω κρυφά μια προσευχή || In the thunderstorm and in the rain, I say a prayer secretly να 'χεις τον ήλιο συντροφιά στη συννεφιά || that you may have the sun for company among the clouds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post This is terrible. This is one the terrible, terrifying songs. The kind you don't even need to know the words, to understand what it is saying. Δεν γίνεται καλά, yes indeed. Ο μαύρος ήλιος ..........||............. The black sun Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος ..........||............. Music: Stavros Ksarchakos Στίχοι: Νίκος Γκάτσος ..........||............. Lyrics: Nikos Gatsos Μαύρος ο ήλιος σήμερα κι η ξαστεριά μια χίμαιρα ..........||............. The sun is black today, and fair skies wishful thinking, μα βρήκα βράχο και γιαλό στον κόσμο τον αμαρτωλό ..........||............. but I found rock and seashore in a world filled with sins. Κι έριξα τα κρίματα σε σαράντα κύματα ..........||............. And I threw the sins into forty waves έριξα τα κρίματα σε σαράντα κύματα ..........||............. I threw the sins into forty waves έριξα τα κρίματα ..........||............. I threw the sins away ’μοιρο αδέρφι σου 'φερα της λευτεριάς τα νούφαρα ..........||............. Ill-fated brother, I brought you the water-lilies of freedom και με την πίκρα στην ματιά μάζεψα τ' άγια σου σκουτιά ..........||............. and with bitterness in my eye, I gathered your holy rags Κι έπλυνα τα αίματα σε σαράντα ρέματα ..........||............. And I washed the blood in forty streams έπλυνα τα αίματα σε σαράντα ρέματα ..........||............. I washed the blood in forty streams έπλυνα τα αίματα ..........||............. I washed the blood away Μαύρος ο ήλιος σήμερα κι είναι βουβά τα σήμαντρα ..........||............. The sun is black today, and the bells are silent μα εγώ στου πόνου την πλαγιά προσκύνησα την Παναγιά ..........||............. but I, on the hillside of pain, I bowed before the Holy Virgin, Κι έκλαψα τα θύματα σε σαράντα μνήματα ..........||............. And I wept for the victims in forty tombs έκλαψα τα θύματα σε σαράντα μνήματα ..........||............. I wept for the victims in forty tombs έκλαψα τα θύματα ..........||............. I wept for the victims. [update translation 16 june 2008] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 24, 2003 · Report post EDIT 2006: there are mistakes in this one, please go to the more recent translation on the next page OK, I changed my mind. Here is the missing one. First famous in the Bithikotsis version, if I'm not mistaken. ΣΑΒΒΑΤΟΒΡΑΔΟ ΣΤΗΝ ΚΑΙΣΑΡΙΑΝΗ || Saturday night in Kaisariani Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: Stavros Ksarchakos. Στίχοι: Λευτέρης Παπαδόπουλος || Lyrics: Lefteris Papadopoulos Το απομεσήμερο έμοιαζε να στέκει || The afternoon seemed to come to a standstill σαν αμάξι γέρικο στην ανηφοριά || like a battered car on an uphill climb κάθε απομεσήμερο στο παλιό μας στέκι || every afternoon in our old hide-out πίσω απ' το μαγέρικο του Ντελη-βοριά || behind the cook-shop of Deli-voria Κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και ψωμί σπιτίσιο || And all things seem like heaven, and home-baked bread κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και γλυκό γλυκό ψωμί || and all things seem like heaven, and sweet, sweet bread Γνώριζες τα βήματα ξέκρινα τους ήχους || You knew all the footsteps, I analyzed the sounds και φωτιές ανάβαμε με σβηστή φωνή || and we would light the lights with lowered voices τις βραδιές συνθήματα γράφαμε στους τοίχους || in the evenings we'd write slogans on the walls πέφταμε φωνάζοντας κάτω οι Γερμανοί || and we'd run shouting behind the Germans. Κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και ψωμί σπιτίσιο || And all things seem like heaven, and home-baked bread κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και γλυκό γλυκό ψωμί || and all things seem like heaven, and sweet, sweet bread Τάχα τι να ζήλεψαν στα χλωρά σου μάτια || There was something that made them jealous, in your light eyes που γιομάν τ' απόβραδο γλύκα πρωινή || which filled the early evening with sweet morning light ήρθαν και βασίλεψαν τα βαθιά σου μάτια || they went and were lost, those deep eyes of yours κάποιο Σαββατόβραδο στην Καισαριανή || a certain Saturday night in Kaisariani Κι όλα γίναν κεραυνός πελαγίσια αρμύρα || And all things turned to thunder κι όλα γίναν κεραυνός και πικρό πικρό ψωμί || and all things turned to thunder, and bitter, bitter bread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 27, 2003 · Report post μάνα μου Ελλάς || my mother Ellasπου τα παιδιά σου σκλάβους ξεπουλάς || who sells your children as slaves. On dark desert highway, Sunday at two in the morning, suddenly there grinned at me, out of the darkness and the rain, a huge advertising poster for cheap holiday flights: Full colour close-up shot on the toothpaste grins of a typical-happy-family, mom and dad and two kiddies, all blonde and sun-burned and covered in sun-tan oil, shiny, ready for barbecueing... And the name Zakynthos in multicoloured-wobbly-fun letters across it. And I thought: Oh yes, mother Greece, you sold your kids by the shipload, sure, and they learned the lesson well and now they are selling you, in turn, flesh and skin and bone... And I stopped myself, appaled, because who the fukk am I, barbarian, to reproach the penniless greeks for making a living as best they can? And who am I to judge the oedipus complexes of the nation that invented them in the first place? I stopped myself, but it was too late. You can't unthink thoughts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 27, 2003 · Report post OK, I changed my mind. Here is the missing one.First famous in the Bithikotsis version, if I'm not mistaken. You are not mistaken, Geeske. It was also very movingly sung by Melina Merkouri (my favourite version), and there's a very nice version by Mouskouri with Diamantis Panaretos on the bouzouki (Sotiria Bellou's favourite bouzouki player)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 3, 2003 · Report post Corrected version..... ΤΗΣ ΑΜΥΝΗΣ ΤΑ ΠΑΙΔΙΑ || The boys in the armyΜουσική: Παραδοσιακό, διασκευή: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος || Music: traditional, arranged by Stavros Ksarchakos. Στίχοι: Παραδοσιακό || Lyrics: traditional Μια μέρα θα το γράψει η ιστορία || One day History will write it down που έδιωξε απ' την Αθήνα τα θηρία || who kicked the big guys out of Athens, που έδιωξε βασιλείς και βουλευτάδες || who kicked out kings * and parliamentaries, τους ψευταράδες και τους μασκαράδες || those who told lies, those who wore masks. Και στην άμυνα εκεί όλοι οι αξιωματικοί || And there in the army are all the officers πολεμάει κι ο Βενιζέλος || Venizelos * too is fighting που αυτός θα φέρει τέλος || the one who will bring it to an end και ο κάθε πατριώτης θα μας φέρουν την ισότης || and every single patriot, they will bring us Equality Η Παναγιά που στέκει στο πλευρό μας || The Holy Virgin is on our side δείχνει το δρόμο στο νέο στρατηγό μας || she shows the way to our new general τον ήρωα της εθνικής αμύνης || the hero of the nation's army που πολεμάει και διώχνει τους εχθρούς || who is fighting and beating the enemies. Της αμύνης τα παιδιά διώξανε το βασιλιά || The boys in the army, they kicked out the king και του δώσαν τα βρακιά του || and they handed him his trousers * για να πάει στη δουλειά του || that he might go off to work τον περίδρομο να τρώει με το ξένο του το σόι || that he might eat himself sick together with his foreign relatives. Έλα να δεις σπαθιά και γιαταγάνια || Come on and look at the swords and sabres * που βγάζουν φλόγες και φτάνουν στα ουράνια || which spit fire and reach up to the skies εκεί ψηλά ψηλά στα σύνορά μας || up there, up, on our borders, τρέχει ποτάμι το αίμα του εχθρού || a river flows, the blood of our enemy. Της αμύνης τα παιδιά διώξανε το βασιλιά || The boys in army, they kicked out the king, της αμύνης το καπέλο έφερε το Βενιζέλο || the army's hat was put on by Venizelos, της αμύνης το σκουφάκι || the army's cap έφερε το Λευτεράκη || Lefteraki put it on With many thanks to Christos-regnis for his careful and patient help! For the notes.... see the previous post, on page 1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 29, 2006 · Report post Thanks to Antometrios, I've had a second look at the translation of this song - it makes me shudder to think what other enormities I've left in older posts in here...... here is a re-translation. Σαββατόβραδο στην Καισαριανή_____||_____ Saturday night in Kaisariani Μουσική: Σταύρος Ξαρχάκος_____||_____ Music: Stavros Ksarchakos Στίχοι: Λευτέρης Παπαδόπουλος_____||_____ Lyrics: Lefteris Papadopoulos Το απομεσήμερο έμοιαζε να στέκει_____||_____ The afternoon seemed stuck σαν αμάξι γέρικο στην ανηφοριά_____||_____ like an ancient car in a climb κάθε απομεσήμερο στο παλιό μας στέκι_____||_____ every afternoon in our old hide-out πίσω απ' το μαγέρικο του Ντελη-Βοριά_____||_____ behind the cook-shop of Deli-Voria Κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και ψωμί σπιτίσιο_____||_____ And all things seemed like heaven, and home-baked bread κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και γλυκό γλυκό ψωμί_____||_____ And all things seemed like heaven, and sweet, sweet bread envy Γνώριζες τα βήματα ξέκρινα τους ήχους_____||_____ You could recognize the steps, I was analyzing every sound και φωτιές ανάβαμε με σβηστή φωνή_____||_____ and we would light fires, our voices hushed τις βραδιές συνθήματα γράφαμε στους τοίχους_____||_____ In the evening we would write slogans on the walls πέφταμε φωνάζοντας κάτω οι Γερμανοί_____||_____ and drop down, calling out "Down with the Germans" Κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και ψωμί σπιτίσιο_____||_____ And all things seemed like heaven, and home-baked bread κι όλα μοιάζαν ουρανός και γλυκό γλυκό ψωμί_____||_____ And all things seemed like heaven, and sweet, sweet bread Τάχα τι να ζήλεψαν τα χλωρά σου μάτια_____||_____ What can it have been that your green eyes wanted and went after, που γιομάν τ' απόβραδο γλύκα πρωινή_____||_____ they who used to fill the evening with morning sweetness? ήρθαν και βασίλεψαν τα βαθιά σου μάτια_____||_____ They went and filled with night, those deep eyes of yours κάποιο Σαββατόβραδο στην Καισαριανή_____||_____ one Saturday night in Kaisariani. Κι όλα 'γίναν κεραυνός πελαγίσια αρμύρα_____||_____ And all things became thunder, like the sea, bitter and salt κι όλα 'γίναν κεραυνός και πικρό πικρό ψωμί_____||_____ And all things became thunder and bitter, bitter bread. p.s. note that Τάχα τι να ζήλεψαν τα χλωρά σου μάτια is written and translated here as Dalaras sings it, not as the lyrics are given in the site (...στα χλωρά σου μάτια). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 4, 2006 · Report post This song is so familiar to everyone on the forum, not only Greeks, that we don't pay much attention to the words --- However, I have to make couple remarks regarding some important omission: μαιμού means not only "monkey" but the thing monkeys are good at: imitation. So, γύφτισα μαιμού means "fake gypsy women", a women pretending to be a gypsy, or someone making false promises. και στο παζάρι με πήρες || and to the bazaar you took meγύφτισα μαιμού || as a gypsy woman takes a monkey Ελλάδα Ελλάδα μάνα του καημού || Ellada, Ellada, mother of grief. . I offer this translation: while I was consulting my Fate you picked me on the market by playing a fake gypsy women (meaning "you cheated me by telling wrong - intentionally decieving - fate, so I got implicated in something I had no intentions to, like war in Anatolia.) In general, the poem consists of alternating strophes, one saying that "you have been telling me decieving "big" words" - suggesting big nationalistic talk (reviving Magna Grecia), and the next saying - but after having stirred all that trouble, you yourself always pretended looking nice and good, leaving me (people) to my fate - cleaning a mess made the politicians (such was general mood in Greece towards E. Venithelos in 1922). There is also a missing strophe sung in the movie: Δεν έχω άγιο πια να προσκυνώ ούτε καντήλι σ'άδειο ουρανό δεν έχω ήλιο ούτ' αστροφεγγιά να τραγουδήσω μια Πρωτομαγιά. I don't have a saint to bow to anymore neither a candle under an empty sky I don't have sun or starlight (to inspire me) for my yearly May celebration. BTW, the original title of the poem reads this: Μάνα μου Ελλάς (Γύφτισσα μαϊμού) My mother Hellas (fake gypsy) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 4, 2006 · Report post Dear Marina, it's all very well to put your imagination to work to help out where your knowledge of the language is not sufficient, but you do tend to let it run away with you. In the case of the gypsy, your "consulting fate" idea is quite okay as your own free association, but it's not in any sense a translation of those lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 5, 2006 · Report post Dear Geeske: Imagination does help when you are trying to understand the meaning instead of just dismissing it as "poetically misty", thus being a necessary part of the poetic charm. However, in this case you don't need much imagination - just consulting a dictionary would be useful once in a while (Collins Greek-English for example). Also, if you try for once to finish reading the post you might pay attention to the subtitle of the poem which is consistent with the interpretation given by the Collins. (Not mentioning that the "disguised gypsy" would make more sense in the context of the poem than a "monkey" does - in my humble opinion). As for my insufficient knowledge of the Greek language - I don't take offense. The only thing I can add in this regard is that fluency in conversation does not necessarily equals translation skills, and often times one conflicts with the other, especially considering big difference between the vocabularies of conversational and literature languages. And being fluent in both aspects, as you certainly are, might also lead to neglecting The Dictionary - The God of Translation (even if a lame one - like Hefestus). As a professional translator you must agree that the art of translation consists of two parts: understanding in one language and telling in another... Now, I don't want to be going in circles - see above and you will not finish reading anyway... I hope you'll accept these remarks as a friendly exchange, as I did (I tried hard though) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2006 · Report post Hmm, I did not take offense about insufficient knowledge, but regarding imagination (not necessarily mine) - yes, it does hurt that this important quality can be so easily dismissed, and especially with regard to a translation of poetry... Isn't the poetry a work of imagination? Aren't words in poetry just a vehicle of imagination? At least in most cases? How can you understand without imagining yourself in the poet's mind? To be more specific, I would like to mention a translation of Ginaika by Nikos Kavvadias, which was characterized by several forum members as "untranslatable". Yes, as any work of poetry it is untranslatable - but, again, as most even difficult poetic works it can be successfully interpreted by putting in context various parameters missing from the text: such as the author's biography, proper names, historical associations, etc. In this case, I had complemented my insufficient knowledge (it's always insufficient until you put some work in - even with excellent language skills) by research of biography, words from the Kefalonian dialect (mixed with the Venetian), research of pictures by Giorgione, and some other hints dispersed by the poet in his travel through time and seas. Excerpts from his diary found on a blogo-site, helped, too (thanks, WWW!). Without imagination, however, it would have been impossible to piece all that together. While acknowledging that the result is not faultless, I am confident that it makes sense - it gives a reasonably clear idea of what the poet wanted to say, in spite of all claims that the poem is "surrealistic" and untranslatable (he was a sailor - romantic, but he knew what he wanted to say). http://www.dalaras.com/forum/index.php?act...cbb84beb75c484a Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2006 · Report post Hi everyone, I'm not a native speaker either, but I have a suggestion concerning the translation of γύφτισσα μαϊμου. I think it could refer to the "speaker" of the poem/lyrics as well. That is, γύφτισσα μαϊμου is not μάνα μου Ελλάς, but the person who is being deceived, cheated, denigrated etc. So, instead of: και στο παζάρι με πήρες || and to the bazaar you took me γύφτισα μαιμού || as a gypsy woman takes a monkey we would have: and to the bazar you took me, and let me dance like a monkey gypsy woman (monkey imitating/impersonating a Gypsy woman) As I'm sure Geske knows, in older times many Gypsies would make a living (at bazars, panegiria etc.) by playing popular tunes on the defi and letting a monkey dance. From what I have understood, this monkey would often imitate human beings, for example a "giftissa" dancing the tsifte-teli (a classic example of Gypsy "exotism" in Greece and elsewhere). Apart from the historical references, this interpretation would also tie in with the general theme of denigration and humiliation which characterizes this song. Both giftissa and maimou are nouns, which makes the combination a bit unusual (you'd expect an adjective here) but these combinations are not unusual in Greek, as in παιδί θαύμα, which means wonder kid, exceptional child...a child that is like a wonder, or in this case, a monkey that is like a Gypsy woman. It would be interesting to hear a native speaker's take on this! P.S. μαϊμού is often used to denote something "fake" or inauthentic, as in fake Rayban sunglasses. However, "by playing a fake Gypsy woman" doesn't really fit with the rest of the syntax, since "με πήρες στο παζάρι" can only mean "you took me to the bazaar". "You picked me up from the bazaar" would be "με πήρες από το παζάρι", and I'm not even sure if that's the expression most commonly used for "picking up someone". Eva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2006 · Report post Hi, Eva Thanks for the comments. It is an interesting suggestion. The truth emerges from a discussion (the more heated the better ). However, I think that your version γύφτισσα μαϊμου is not μάνα μου Ελλάς, but the person who is being deceived, cheated, denigrated etc. is a bit of a stretch. I think it's much simpler: just "a cunning" gypsy". And I am still strongly in favor of my version which is: no monkey business 1) because in the dictionary it is clearly stated that μαιμού means fake, and especially, the (Collins) dictionary gives couple example exactly in the same grammatical structure: like for example, "fake auto parts" (I don't have the dictionary handy, but will post those examples later). 2) Another dictionary which I am consulting at the moment (by William Crighton) tells: μαιμού - cunning, tricky person. - which is a little different interpretation. the 1-st meaning: mother Hellas disguised as a gypsy women, the 2-nd: mother Hellas, cunning, not honest (close but different). 3) About the syntax of the phrase "με πήρες στο παζάρι" However, "by playing a fake Gypsy woman" doesn't really fit with the rest of the syntax, since "με πήρες στο παζάρι" can only mean "you took me to the bazaar". "You picked me up from the bazaar" would be "με πήρες από το παζάρι", and I'm not even sure if that's the expression most commonly used for "picking up someone". I don't think it might only mean: "you took me TO the market". It might also mean: "You picked me while I was walking IN the market" (worried about my next moves, absorbed in a silent conversation with my fate) - like have surely happened to many of us: you are walking absorbed in some thoughts, and a gypsy women appears on your way offering to tell you your future? It would be certaily interesting to hear from a native speaker, though. Upon consideration, it is feasible to translate: "you, like a cunning (or disguised) gypsy, took me to the market" (still in doubt: what for? Could a gypsy trick someone to follow her to the market to be sold as a slave?). It is possible though if I am a child. In this case, there is no monkey either. The meaning would be: "you, a cunning gypsy, took me (as a little child) to the market to be sold as a slave"? P.S. Mother Hellas disguised as a gypsy fits well with the other strophes telling how she changed into her luxury clothes AFTER she got me implicated into a messy things by cunning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2006 · Report post Hi Marina, You wrote: However, I think that your version γύφτισσα μαϊμου is not μάνα μου Ελλάς, but the person who is being deceived, cheated, denigrated etc. is a bit of a stretch. I think it's much simpler: just "a cunning" gypsy". That is q quite plausible translation, I just didn't think of it! It would mean that "giftissa maimou" is in vocative case here...the speaker is calling "mana mou ellas" two derogatory words that have the connotations of crafty, cunning, mean, dirty, shabby etc. It's probably the most logical as well, given the structure of the phrase...as you notice both Geske, you and myself had to expand this elliptical phrase quite a bit in order to offer our various translations. Another interpretation of στο παζάρι με πήρες would be that Greece "sold out" her children...that is, she took them to the bazaar for ξεπούλημα. The Stavropoulos dictionary gives the following meaning for ξεπουλώ (φθηνά) sell off, sell out and a secondary meaning μεταφορικά (με αντάλλαγμα) barter/bargain away, (προδίνω) sell out, as in ξεπούλησε τη χώρα στους ξένους If you consider that a bazaar is where you sell off things cheaply, it kind of fits that "mana Ellas" would take the "speaker" of the poem to the bazaar to sell him out....but that's just my interpretation, of course. Eva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
