NIKH

Zeibekiko

23 posts in this topic

I know four things about it.

It is the most complicated of all song rhythms in the world, ever,

Only men dance to it,

It is SEXY, but WHY?

and....

I love it. I LOVE IT SO MUCH.

Maybe there is a nice person here who knows more about it and would tell us the more.

There are many questions about it, but one is EXTRA, where can one learn it ?...

Well, I don't intend to dance to it, not even in private, but I would LOVE to be able to follow it by clapping, without having to pay attention to the sheme that my son invented for me because it has, if I remember well, 9 tacts after which it is being reapeated. Or even more?! :)

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for now take this...

(sorry but i don't remember from which site it's taken...what i remember that's the writer's name is "Dionisis Charitopolous"...)

Το ζεϊμπέκικο δύσκολα χορεύεται. Δεν έχει βήματα είναι ιερατικός χορός με εσωτερική ένταση και νόημα που ο χορευτής οφείλει να το γνωρίζει και να το σέβεται.

Είναι η σωματική έκφραση της ήττας. Η απελπισία της ζωής. Το ανεκπλήρωτο όνειρο. Είναι το «δεν τα βγάζω πέρα». Το κακό που βλέπεις να έρχεται. Το παράπονο των ψυχών που δεν προσαρμόστηκαν στην τάξη των άλλων.

Το ζεϊμπέκικο δεν χορεύεται ποτέ στην ψύχρα ει μη μόνον ως κούφια επίδειξη. Ο χορευτής πρέπει πρώτα «να γίνει», να φτιάξει κεφάλι με ποτά και όργανα, για να ανέβουν στην επιφάνεια αυτά που τον τρώνε.

Η περιγραφή της προετοιμασίας είναι σαφής:

Παίξε, Χρήστο, το μπουζούκι,

ρίξε μια γλυκιά πενιά,

σαν γεμίσω το κεφάλι,

γύρνα το στη ζεϊμπεκιά.

(Τσέτσης)

Ο αληθινός άντρας δεν ντρέπεται να φανερώσει τον πόνο ή την αδυναμία του αγνοεί τις κοινωνικές συμβάσεις και τον ρηχό καθωσπρεπισμό. Συμπάσχει με τον στίχο ο οποίος εκφράζει σε κάποιον βαθμό την προσωπική του περίπτωση, γι' αυτό επιλέγει το τραγούδι που θα χορέψει και αυτοσχεδιάζει σε πολύ μικρό χώρο ταπεινά και με αξιοπρέπεια. Δεν σαλτάρει ασύστολα δεξιά κι αριστερά βρίσκεται σε κατάνυξη. Η πιο κατάλληλη στιγμή για να φέρει μια μαύρη βόλτα είναι η στιγμή της μουσικής γέφυρας, εκεί που και ο τραγουδιστής ανασαίνει.

Ο σωστός χορεύει άπαξ δεν μονοπωλεί την πίστα. Το ζεϊμπέκικο είναι σαν το «Πάτερ Ημών». Τα είπες όλα με τη μία.

Τα μεγάλα ζεϊμπέκικα είναι βαριά, θανατερά:

Ίσως αύριο χτυπήσει πικραμένα

του θανάτου η καμπάνα και για μένα.

(Τσιτσάνης)

Τι πάθος ατελείωτο που είναι το δικό μου,

όλοι να

i hope u ;ike it..!

kalinichta!

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Ach, zeibekiko! Raise your hand if you dance it!

NIKH, I don't know whether that long quote explained anything to you because I don't understand Greek, but here are my thoughts after some observation over the past year (it's only a recent passion).

+ is a beat

_ is a rest

The two common beats seem to be

++_++ (see "Roza" by Dimitris Mitropanos)

or

+_+++ (see "Me Ena Parapono" by Dalaras)

Between repetitions of these beats are single beats like this _+_ but the number of these depends entirely on the song, and that's why it seems so complicated to some. Honestly, when I hear a song for the first time, I can usually tell when the beat is about to repeat, but that's only because I listen to many zeibekika and have become very used to its typical format. (For example, there is often one beat between repetitions except for at the end of a verse, when there might be an extra thrown on.) Occasionally there is an annoyingly complicated song that deliberately tries to throw us off, or so it would seem. Yet even those can be mastered.

"Stin Alana" is brilliant. I love the instrumental part.

***_***_**_**_*_*_

(instrumental)

**_**_*_*_***_*_*_**_**_*_**_**_*_*

(Se karterouse i zoi ... blah blah...)

This, you'll note, is not like I described above; like I said, occasionally license is taken. Furthermore, that's how I hear it, and it may be different for others. The most important thing to remember, though is that there is a set of five beats separated by an unfixed number of single beats and which can either take the form of **_** or *_*** though occasionally they become ***** or even ****_** ... but it all works out mathematically! Somehow!

Wow, I'm confusing myself! But I just love zeibekiko. I consider very sad that it's not a regular at my high school dances....

Okay, everyone, what are your favorites?

Mine, by Dalaras: Stin Alana, To Vouno, O Palios Stratiotis, I Asfaltos Pou Trehei, Ilie Mou Se Parakalo (though I don't really dance to that one), Mes Tou Vosporou Ta Stena. I'm dying to hear Nyhteridha because I've heard it's excellent, but I got the English version of his album, which does not include it--little did I know at the time! Ach, otherwise, Roza (Mitropanos), Monos Mou (Remos), As Ton Trelo Stin Trelatou (Kotsiras)--and, well, the list goes on a bit too long to include.

Anyway, sorry if that was all incomprehensible. Now I have to get back to schoolwork (I'm in World Wide Web Publishing at the moment, and the teacher had better no see me goofing off...).

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Τα μεγάλα ζεϊμπέκικα είναι βαριά

Δεν υπάρχουν βαριά ζεϊμπέκικα έλεγε ο Τσιτσάνης. "αργά" είναι η σωστή λέξη... :)

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Oh, Fadi, thank you SO much, I loved the text, though it did not explain why only MEN dance to it, as if women have no SUCH pain as men do, of DEFEAT.....

HARIS ALEXIU has a song where she says, 'kante pera horevi i mikri', or something like that, please help from Olga or Francois or Michael, about the song.

There, it is a woman in a man's pain...e?!

Anyway......

And, ANTOMETRIOS, whatever THIS means to you, I would like to know, you know, because you really took your time to help me understand more about the very rhythm, not about why only men, but this, what you wrote will be SUCH a help to my son who says there is a sheme of nine or eleven plus and minus tacts, and now you say 'it depends' so he will be happy to study your writing and tell me what he thinks, whether you are right....and then I will write it here, he is obsessed with it, you know....Thank you SO much!!!

:):(

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Fine, Fadi, Shukran Jazilar!

Luckily I have today an empty 40 qm room (8 m high) in our kings castle in the breaks of my work, so I can try already.......

Nikh, I am not sure about the quoted text at the moment. But I'll think about it.

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Olga, maybe it is not Haris, or not ONLY Haris who sings it, it's men, a chorodia, when I find it somewhere here, at home, I will let you know...

Thank you anyway :)

Fadi, thank you again, where do you get all this info!!!? :)

.............

AND SCIENTIST, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!! :)

It was nice to find out that not 'all' men are bad. Some are worse....... :(

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'kante pera horevi i mikri'

It would be even more a question for a "quotations" topic;

if I remember well, this may be from "Byzantinos Esperinos";

as I do not have this CD this week by me, I can not look for it now.

As for another word you ask in the another topic, I do not know, which one you mean, Nikh.

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"Σαν πεθάνω στο καράβι"

"Κλαμένη μούρθες μια βραδιά"

"Ήρθαν πρόωρα ρυτίδες"

Some of the best zeibekika I have ever heard. At least they are authentic rebetika songs, not laika with zeibekiko rythm.

But I do like laika with zeibekiko rythm too...

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:) Oh shucks, NIKH, your son would probably know alot more about it than I would. The mathematical workings of music completely escape me. I sing, dance, or whatever purely by imitation or inspiration. It would make sense that there's some regular scheme of zeibekiko that I am only subconciously aware of and thus have become able to predict--I don't know. (Certainly, come to think of it, older songs do seem a lot more regular.) Yet certainly there are those--today, anyway--which do their own thing. For example:

"O Stratos" (abnormal instrumental retrain)

and "I Stella I Smyrnia" (listen to the refrain) by Sfakianakis

"Kai N'amouna" by Themis Adamantidis (that one's a puzzler)

Oops, I forgot to mention "Vrehei Sti Ftohogeitonia" as one of my favorite Dalaras zeibekika. As for the laika songs with zeibekiko beats, well, good! The dance won't die if people adapt it to new musical trends. (Ach! Pray for a techno zeibekiko, or it's the end for us who love to dance.... Techno is the evil destroyer of ethnic customs; it consumes worldly variety.) :)

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Tha tu doso na to MELETISI afto, ke tha su to anafero. Pros ti stigmi den ine edo, ke 'edo ' ine H ATHINA.

Ke gia to TEHNO eho na po to exis.

TO MISO TOSO POLI, OSTE NA MI XERO TI INE AFTO, MIPOS MIA NEA ODONDOKREMA I KOLONA, E!? :lol:

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Concerning the text "Vrexei stin ftoxogeitonia";

this site and Giorgos Dalaras "in concert" (Mousiko kouti, Epi skinis)

says:

"είσαι μικρός και δεν χωράς

το αναστεναγμό μου",

while Dimitris Mitropanos (Concert for Bithikotzis )

and Giannis Kotsiras (Live 2003) sing both:

"ΣΤΟ αναστεναγμό μου......"

What sense would this second version make? After all they are Greeks (sounds like a quote from K. Kavafis, it is not), so they should know better than me.... But, if a world is small, why is it still too big not to "suit" into a sigh?

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Antometrios, sorry, I answered you in Greek forgetting that you speak none, and it is the first time for me to speak in Greek without being aware of it. anyway I said nothing of any importance... :)

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Haha

I was mildly confused as to whether you were talking to me or not there.... I'll have to learn Greek so there's no more confusion in the future.

Oh, but about Vrehei Sti Ftohogeitonia ... there are two versions? I find this upsetting. The translation on this site (or in the forum, anyway) is that the world is too small to fit my sigh in it. I consider that to be one of the greatest lyrics I've ever heard. I interpret it to mean that the world, big as it is, really, is too small to fit my tremendous sigh, which is in regards to that same world. Do you suppose that's wrong? It's a great song, regardless.

Hey, last night, Saturday, October 12, 2003, I danced zeibekiko to Stin Alana at a Metroplitan Greek Dancing Festival in New Hampshire. They usually just play whatever's presently popular, so I requested an oldy (not to mention, the best), and I don't think anyone minded :)

(This seemed worth noting.)

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Concerning the text "Vrexei stin ftoxogeitonia";

this site and Giorgos Dalaras "in concert" (Mousiko kouti, Epi skinis)

says:

"είσαι μικρός και δεν χωράς

το αναστεναγμό μου",

while Dimitris Mitropanos (Concert for Bithikotzis )

and Giannis Kotsiras (Live 2003) sing both:

"ΣΤΟ αναστεναγμό μου......"

The Bithikotsis version (the original :) ) and the Mouskouri version (a very sweet one on her LP "Chants de mon pays" both say "τον αναστεναγμό μου".

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It's hard to imagine Nana Mouskouri singing that song.... Actually, the only real Greek music I've heard her perform consists of Droom, Droom and Never On Sunday ... and I think some might debate that second item.

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It's hard to imagine Nana Mouskouri singing that song....  Actually, the only real Greek music I've heard her perform consists of Droom, Droom and Never On Sunday ... and I think some might debate that second item.

Mouskouri has sung some serious songs... :) More than you could ever imagine - I don't think many people here know Mouskouri very well (but this belongs to another topic). Her version of our song is quite old and extremely sweet. The zeibekiko rythm, although very slightly present in the interpretation, is not the main quality of it. It is rather the lament of a mother more than anything else.

Now, in my opinion, although the song has a zeibekiko rythm, can it be compared to the "genuine" zeibekika, I mean the rebetika with a zeibekiko beat? Personally, I'd never dance on anything else than on this type of zeibekiko. The 'entehna' and non rebetika zeibekika are for listening only. That's how I see them.

For me zeibekiko is a 'sacred' dance. Read about it in Petropoulos's book "Rebetika Tragoudia"

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Antometrius, your words about THE lyrics being some of the most beautiful you have ever heard, reminded me of another poem, of an unknown, here, Serbian poet of 19th century, by name Vladislav Petkovich DIS, whatever this DIS meant to him...

The poem bears the gloomy title

PRISON

and the first verse tells it all,

the prison beng the world that the newborn soul falls in without knowing or wanting it......

He drowned in a shipwreck during the first world war...

He is the saddest poet I have ever read.

Now that I think of it, and I have his collection here at home, maybe I can THINK OF translating them into...well....just a thought...

One verse says, 'maybe she is sleeping and her grave sadly cuddles her body' :)

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Antometrius, your words about THE lyrics being some of the most beautiful you have ever heard, reminded me of another poem, of an unknown, here, Serbian poet of 19th century, by name Vladislav Petkovich DIS, whatever this DIS meant to him...

The poem bears the gloomy title

PRISON

and the first verse tells it all,

the prison beng the world that the newborn soul falls into without knowing or wanting it......

He drowned in a shipwreck during the first world war...

OF THE TOPIC, AGAIN...

He is the saddest poet I have ever read.

Now that I think of it, and I have his collection here at home, maybe I can THINK OF translating them into...well....just a thought...

One verse says, 'maybe she is sleeping and her grave sadly carresses her body' :)

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Francois! ... but ... well. Hm.

Let me ask you this, just out of curiosity. What makes a song part of the genre rebetika?

For example, would you only dance zeibekiko if accompanied strictly by bouzoukia and baglames (is that the proper plural spelling?) carved from wooden bowls used to serve prisoners from Asia Minor? Do the lyrics have to be about a troubled homeland or other depressing topics?

I'm not so sure I like the phrase "genuine zeibekika" so much as "original." Even that probably isn't good, though. There is some debate over the origins of the dance, isn't there? I've heard it may have begun with the Turks or with Thracian warriors (Zeibekikides?) who hoped to intimidate their foes. I doubt the earliest form of the dance, at any rate, was accompanied by what most of us consider to be rebetika. Music evolves, for better or worse, and rebetika was only a medium by which zeibekiko was portrayed as the more modern songs are now.

I like rebetika; I like laika. I love the music of Dalaras, and I don't even know what on earth most of his songs could be called. What is Stin Alana? Or Paraponemena Logia? They don't sound quite like either genre to me. (What on earth is Ilie Mou Se Parakalo?) Yet I could not tell you I wouldn't dance to them because they move me. They get me out of my seat and onto the dance floor (or the open space in my kitchen).

For me, the emotional appeal of the music, along with the beat, is what makes a zeibekiko "genuine."

Perhaps someone else has insights, though? I'm very interested in the actual history of the dance if anyone knows more than I do (which is very little). Sorry to ramble. :)

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