Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post I like movie songs. Songs and story-telling, story-acting, they were born as twins the ancient greek theatre, it's good to see them playing together on the screen now. I love the book Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά and I love the songs and I hope to get to see the tv series some time. I'm going to dump all the songs in one topic, wether they've been done here before or not. I found them very interesting as a translation job, lots of nice bits where the word-for-word translation makes little or no sense... So, all comments and help are welcome. ΒΑΜΜΕΝΑ ΚΟΚΚΙΝΑ ΜΑΛΛΙΑ || Hair dyed red Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά κάθε νύχτα || Hair dyed red, every night, σε ποια σεντόνια να δακρύζεις στα κρυφά || in whose sheets will you be crying, in secret, δεν έχει περιθώριο η πίκρα || the bitterness has no limits και η χαρά τελειώνει στα μισά || and the joy ends broken in two. Λυπημένη μου αγάπη καληνύχτα || My grieving love, good night! δεν τελειώνουμε έτσι εύκολα εμείς || It does not end so easily for us σαν αγέρας που σε καίει μες τη νύχτα || like the wind that burns you in the night όποια πόρτα κι αν ανοίξεις θα με βρεις || whichever door you open, you will find me. Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά και μια δάφνη || Hair dyed red, and an oleander blossom στο χέρι για παρηγοριά || in your hand for comfort γιατί θυμάσαι πάντα τα λάθη || because you remember the mistakes forever γιατί δε φεύγεις για τη λησμονιά || because you do not go off into forgetting. Λυπημένη μου αγάπη καληνύχτα || My grieving love, good night! δεν τελειώνουμε έτσι εύκολα εμείς || It does not end so easily for us σαν αγέρας που σε καίει μες τη νύχτα || like the wind that burns you in the night όποια πόρτα κι αν ανοίξεις θα με βρεις || whichever door you open, you will find me. Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά μια σταγόνα || Hair dyed red, one drop στα χείλη να σε καίει για καιρό || on your lips to burn you for a long time ποιος τάζει της ζωής το χειμώνα || Who promises the winter of life και ποιος φοβάται το Χριστό || and who fear Christ? Λυπημένη μου αγάπη καληνύχτα || My grieving love, good night! δεν τελειώνουμε έτσι εύκολα εμείς || It does not end so easily for us σαν αγέρας που σε καίει μες τη νύχτα || like the wind that burns you in the night όποια πόρτα κι αν ανοίξεις θα με βρεις || whichever door you open, you will find me. Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά καληνύχτα || Hair dyed red, good night! του χρόνου πάλι θα σε θυμηθώ || Next year I will remember you again... Καληνύχτα || Good night... Σ' αγαπώ || I love you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΠΕΠΡΩΜΕΝΟ || Destiny Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Στο πεπρωμένο σου να δίνεις σημασία || Pay attention to your destiny, και να προσέχεις πώς βαδίζεις στη ζωή || and be careful how you walk into life. Όταν κοιμάσαι άλλος γράφει ιστορία || While you sleep, someone else writes history και κάποιος παίζει τη δική σου την ψυχή || and another gambles with your own life. Όλοι έχουμε γραμμένο || We all have it written out, που το λένε πεπρωμένο || that thing called destiny, και κανένας δεν μπορεί να τ' αποφύγει. || and no one can escape it. Δεν υπάρχει θεωρία || There is no theory, ούτε τρένα ούτε πλοία || no trains no boats, κι ο καθένας το παλεύει || and everyone grapples with it όπως ξέρει και μπορεί. || the best he knows, the best he can. Από παιδί || From the time I was a child στον ύπνο μου έβλεπα φωτιές. || I kept seeing fire in my dreams. Για την αγάπη όσα κι αν δίνεις είναι λίγα || In love, all you can give is but little και να το ξέρεις πως δεν έχει ανταμοιβή. || and realize this: there is no fair reward. Δώστα και φύγε και μη χάνεις ευκαιρία || Give it away and go off, and never waste a chance, στο περιθώριο μη βάζεις την ψυχή! || and don't push your soul out into the margins! Όλοι έχουμε γραμμένο || We all have it written out, που το λένε πεπρωμένο || that thing called destiny, και κανένας δεν μπορεί να τ' αποφύγει. || and no one can escape it. Δεν υπάρχει θεωρία || There is no theory, ούτε τρένα ούτε πλοία || no trains no boats, κι ο καθένας το παλεύει || and everyone grapples with it όπως ξέρει και μπορεί. || the best he knows, the best he can. Από παιδί || From the time I was a child στον ύπνο μου έβλεπα φωτιές. || I kept seeing fire in my dreams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΠΟΥ 'ΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΑΙΔΑΚΙ || Where's that kid got to? Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Πού 'ναι πού 'ναι το παιδάκι || Where's that kid got to? και το κυνηγούν οι βλάχοι || And the fools are after him! Που 'ναι που 'ναι το μικρό || Where is he, the little one, το ξανθό μελαχρινό || the fair one, the dark one... Έχει μάνα καρδερίνα || His mother is a goldfinch και πατέρα απ' την Αθήνα || his father is from Athens, και του 'μαθαν τη ζωή || and they taught him life πάνω σε χλωρό κλαρί || perched on a pale little branch. Πού 'ναι πού 'ναι το παιδάκι || Where's that kid got to? και το κυνηγούν οι βλάχοι || And the fools are after him! που 'ναι που 'ναι το μικρό || Where is he, the little one, το ξανθό μελαχρινό || the fair one, the dark one... Έχει θείο το πλατάνι || His uncle is plane tree και παππού από τη Μάνη || and his granddad is from Mani, και του 'μαθαν το νερό || and they taught him about water πόσο είναι ακριβό || how expensive it is. Πού 'ναι πού 'ναι το παιδάκι || Where's that kid got to? και το κυνηγούν οι βλάχοι || And the fools are after him! που 'ναι που 'ναι το μικρό || Where is he, the little one, το ξανθό μελαχρινό || the fair one, the dark one... Είναι χέλι η νονά του || His godmother is a swallow κι απ΄ τη Σμύρνη η γιαγιά του || and grandma is from Smyrni, και του 'μαθαν μυστικά || and they taught him secretly να γλιστρά στα σκοτεινά || to vanish into the dark. Νάτο, νάτο το παιδάκι || There he is, there is the kid! την πατήσανε οι βλάχοι || the fools, they were had! που τους πήρε το λαχείο || He got the jackpot from them και αγόρασε ένα πλοίο || and bought a boat νάτο, νάτο το παιδάκι || There he is, there is the kid! την πατήσανε οι βλάχοι || the fools, they were had! νάτο, νάτο το μικρό || There he is, there is the little one! το ξανθό μελαχρινό || the fair one, the dark one... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΤΟΥΤΟΣ Ο ΝΤΟΥΝΙΑΣ || This world, here Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Εμάς ο Χάρος το 'κανε || Charos, old Death, picked us, το σπίτι μας σεργιάνι. || our house, to have a walk in. Όταν δεν έρθει μια χρονιά || If he doesn't come one year τότε θα 'ρθει την άλλη || then he will come the next... Τούτος ο ντουνιάς τούτος ο ντουνιάς || This world, this world here, τούτος ο ντουνιάς δεν ήτανε για μας || This world, is was not for us Που πας διαμάντι να κρυφτείς || Where are you going, diamond, hiding, μάλαμα να σκουριάσεις || golden jewel, rusting - και κόκκινο γαρύφαλλο || and you red carnation να κιτρινοφυλλιάσεις; || your petals fading to yellow? Τούτος ο ντουνιάς τούτος ο ντουνιάς || This world, this world here, τούτος ο ντουνιάς δεν ήτανε για μας || This world, is was not for us Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΚΑΤΩ ΑΠΟ ΓΕΦΥΡΕΣ || Under the bridges Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Κάτω από γέφυρες κοιμούνται οι αλήτες || The vagrants, they sleep under the bridges πάνω σε κάρα και βαγόνια στο σταθμό || on cars and wagons at the station, και μες στο χώμα κρύβονται όλες οι αλήθειες || and all the truths, they hide in the dirt, που σου 'πε ο φίλος || the truths that your friend told you ένα βράδυ στο στρατό || one night in the army. Πίσω απ' το σίδερο χτυπάει η αμπάρα || Behind the iron [bars] the bolt clangs κι ο μάγκας κλαίει που δεν έχει ριζικό || and the mangas weeps, who has no future, κάτω απ' τον ήλιο κρύβεται όλη η Ελλάδα || under the sun, all of Greece is hidden, κι όσοι ελπίζουνε ακόμα σε θεό || even those who still believe in a god. Στο φωταέριο ανάψανε μαγκάλι || At the gas-works, they are lighting a torch, και στο λιμάνι περιμένουνε χρυσό || and in the harbour they are waiting for gold, μα για αγάπες ούτε γίνεται κουβέντα || but about love, not a word is being said, λες και πως πρόκειται για κάτι μυστικό || as if it were about something very secret. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΘΑ 'ΡΘΕΙΣ || You will come back Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Θα 'ρθεις πάλι θα 'ρθεις || You will come back δειλά δειλά κάποια βραδιά || some evening, some night, να μου σφυρίξεις || to whistle for me Θα 'ρθεις πάλι θα 'ρθεις || You will come back, come back again. σαν τη βροχή κάποια βραδιά || like the rain, some night, θα με ξυπνήσεις || you will wake me. Έτσι φτάνουν οι αγάπες στον παράδεισο || That is how the loves reach paradise πάντα βρίσκουν το δρόμο μες την άβυσσο || they always find a way through the abyss θα 'ρθεις || You will come back. Θα 'ρθεις πάλι θα 'ρθεις || You will come back, come back again. σαν περιστέρι στη φωλιά του || like a dove to its nest θα γυρίσεις || you will return θα 'ρθεις πάλι θα 'ρθεις || You will come back, come back again. τις αμαρτίες σου θα πεις || you will tell me your sins και θα δακρύσεις || and you will cry Έτσι φτάνουν οι αγάπες στον παράδεισο || That is how the loves reach paradise πάντα βρίσκουν το δρόμο μες την άβυσσο || they always find a way through the abyss θα 'ρθεις || You will come back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΤΑΚΑ ΤΑΚΑ || Taka taka Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Τάκα τάκα τάκα τάκα || Taka taka taka taka σαν περπάταγες στην στράτα || as you walked along the road και σου έστρωναν χαλί || and they spread a carpet for you εγώ σ' έβαζα στη βάρκα || me, I took you into the boat και σε πήγαινα μια τσάρκα || and brought you for a walk στο απέναντι νησί || on the island opposite. Τάκα τάκα τάκα τάκα || Taka taka taka taka σαν παντρεύτηκες σου τα 'πα || when you got married, I told you να 'σαι πιο προσεκτική || to be more careful μα εσύ μυαλό δε βάζεις || but you pay no attention βγαίνεις μπλέκεις και αράζεις || you go and get into trouble and then drop it όπως έκανες μικρή || like you did when you where small. Τσίκι τσίκι τσίκι τσίκι || Tsiki tsiki tsiki tsiki ξεφλουδίζεις το φιστίκι || you peeled your little nut σαν αρμένισσα κυρά || like a street-walking lady ψάχνεις για τις ευκαιρίες || you look for the occasion πας κι ανοίγεις ιστορίες || you go and start queer stories το 'χει μάθει η γειτονιά || the neighbourhood knows. Τίλι τίλι τίλι τίλι || Tili tili tili tili άναψε κα 'να καντήλι || light a little votive candle too μη σε κάνουν τσακωτή || don't let them catch you in the act γιατί θα 'χεις ιστορίες || because you'd never hear the last of it και θα γίνουν φασαρίες || and there would be hell to pay για χατίρι σου τρελή || for your crazy fancy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΔΕΝ ΕΠΙΤΡΕΠΕΤΑΙ || It can't be allowed Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Δεν επιτρέπεται να κάνεις τέτοια λάθη || It can't be allowed that you make mistakes like that εσύ που ξέρεις τόσους δρόμους στη ζωή || you who know so many of the ways of life. δεν επιτρέπεται να κάνεις τέτοια λάθη || It can't be allowed that you make mistakes like that και ας σε πλήγωσα για λίγο μια στιγμή || even though I hurt you, for a moment, at some time. Κάποιος σε πήρε με τα λόγια κάπου σου πήρε το φιλί || Someone caught you with the words, somewhere he caught your kiss κάπως σε κούρασε νομίζω η αγάπη η πολλή || somehow you got tired, I guess, of the love, the very large love. κάποιος σε πήρε με τα λόγια κάπου σου πήρε το φιλί || Someone caught you with the words, somewhere he caught your kiss μα θα θυμάσαι την καρδιά μου και θα κλαις σαν το παιδί || but you will remember my heart and you will cry like a child. Δεν επιτρέπεται να κάνεις τέτοια λάθη || It can't be allowed that you make mistakes like that εσύ που πάντα ήσουνα προσεκτική || you who always were so cautious. δεν επιτρέπεται να κάνεις τέτοια λάθη || It can't be allowed that you make mistakes like that κι ας είπα κάτι σε μιαν άτυχη στιγμή || even though I said something wrong in a moment of bad luck. Κάποιος σε πήρε με τα λόγια κάπου σου πήρε το φιλί || Someone caught you with the words, somewhere he caught your kiss κάπως σε κούρασε νομίζω η αγάπη η πολλή || somehow you got tired, I guess, of the love, the very large love. κάποιος σε πήρε με τα λόγια κάπου σου πήρε το φιλί || Someone caught you with the words, somewhere he caught your kiss μα θα θυμάσαι την καρδιά μου και θα κλαις σαν το παιδί || but you will remember my heart and you will cry like a child. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΑΜΑΡΤΩΛΗ || Unrepentant Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Μες τη ζωή σου έχεις κάνει αδικίες || In your life you have done injustice, κι έχεις παιδέψει το διπλάσιο ντουνιά || and you have made the world suffer twice over, μα όταν έρχεσαι το βράδυ στ' όνειρό μου || but when you come at night into my dream τότε ξυπνάει και μ' ακούει η γειτονιά || then the neighbourhood wakes up and hears me. Αμαρτωλή αμαρτωλή || Unrepentant, unrepentant, πόσους τρελαίνεις απ' το βράδυ στο πρωί || how many do you drive crazy from evening till dawn? αμαρτωλή αμαρτωλή || Unrepentant, unrepentant, σαν την Ελλάδα με τσακίζεις μια ζωή || like Greece herself, you torment me, lifelong. Κινείσαι χάνεσαι υπάρχεις και πλανιέσαι || Moving, vanishing, existing and transient, σαν κάτι πλάσματα που λένε ξωτικά || like some being one might call exotic, λες και τα μάγια που σου κάνανε οι άντρες || as if the magic that the men practiced on you σε έχουν κάνει και δε μοιάζεις με καμιά || has made you so that you are like no other. Αμαρτωλή αμαρτωλή || Unrepentant, unrepentant, πόσους τρελαίνεις απ' το βράδυ στο πρωί || how many do you drive crazy from evening till dawn? αμαρτωλή αμαρτωλή || Unrepentant, unrepentant, σαν την Ελλάδα με τσακίζεις μια ζωή || like Greece herself, you torment me, lifelong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post ΓΕΝΙΑ ΤΟΥ '40 || Generation of '40 Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Σε τούτη τη χώρα τη δύσκολη ώρα || In this country, here, in the though hour, που σβήνεις και λειώνεις σαν μαύρο κερί || when you burn down and melt like a black candle... Γενιά του '40 σε βάλαν στην πάντα || Generation of '40, they put you out in the world με πέντε σημαίες και δυο πλαστικά || with five flags and two bits of plastic. Πώς μας τσακίζει αυτή η χώρα || How this country torments us σαν ξένη μάνα σαν μητριά || like a stranger in mother's place, like a stepmother, Πώς μας σαπίζει αυτή η χώρα || How this country saps and rots us, και μας πετάει μες τα σκυλιά || and then throws us to the dogs. Σε τούτη τη χώρα τη μαύρη την ώρα || In this country, here, in the though hour, Ιούδες φωνάζουν και συ τους κοιτάς || They are designating Judasses, and you are looking on, Η γενιά του '40 ριγμένη στην πάντα || The generation of '40 thrown out in the world σ' αυτή τη μιζέρια που τρώει τη χαρά || into this misery that eats up all joy. Πώς μας τσακίζει αυτή η χώρα || How this country torments us σαν ξένη μάνα σαν μητριά || like a stranger in mother's place, like a stepmother, πώς μας σαπίζει αυτή η χώρα || How this country saps and rots us, και μας πετάει μες τα σκυλιά || and then throws us to the dogs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post Nice move. Micki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 8, 2003 · Report post Well, I had most of these sitting around for ages. Started them a long time ago because I was unhappy with some dutch translations I saw somewhere, finished them because of the book. It was about time I posted them... btw, everyone, I apologize for being rather lazy with the posting of song translations these days. Not putting as much time into it as I used to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Dear Geeske In a way, some comments have already been made, at least about Βαμέννα κοκκινά μαλλιά which Micki translated in May. I think you must have missed them, so heres the link http://www.dalaras.com/forum/index.php?s=8...t=0entry23505 As I see there wasn't a final version, here, in this topic's traditional spirit of collaborative cooperation (or do I mean cooperative collaboration?) is my interpretation of the work of Micki, John, Olga, Athina and Geeske. With comments of course still always welcome. Μουσική: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Music: Vasilis Dimitriou Στίχοι: Βασίλης Δημητρίου || Lyrics: Vasilis Dimitriou Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά κάθε νύχτα || Dyed red hair, every night, σε ποια σεντόνια να δακρύζεις στα κρυφά || into which sheets are you secretly crying, δεν έχει περιθώριο η πίκρα || bitterness has no bounds και η χαρά τελειώνει στα μισά || while joy ends half way. Λυπημένη μου αγάπη καληνύχτα || My sad love, good night δεν τελειώνουμε έτσι εύκολα εμείς || we dont break up so easily σαν αγέρας που σε καίει μες τη νύχτα || like the wind that burns you in the night όποια πόρτα κι αν ανοίξεις θα με βρεις || whichever door you open, you will find me. Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά και μια δάφνη || Dyed red hair and a laurel leaf στο χέρι για παρηγοριά || in your hand for comfort γιατί θυμάσαι πάντα τα λάθη || why always remember the mistakes γιατί δε φεύγεις για τη λησμονιά || why not forget everything * Λυπημένη μου αγάπη καληνύχτα || My sad love, good night δεν τελειώνουμε έτσι εύκολα εμείς || we dont break up so easily σαν αγέρας που σε καίει μες τη νύχτα || like the wind that burns you in the night όποια πόρτα κι αν ανοίξεις θα με βρεις || whichever door you open, you will find me. Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά μια σταγόνα// Red dyed hair, a tear στα χείλη να σε καίει για καιρό // of bitterness should burn your lips for a time ποιος τάζει της ζωής το χειμώνα || Who promises the winter of life και ποιος φοβάται το Χριστό || and who fears Christ? Λυπημένη μου αγάπη καληνύχτα || My sad love, good night δεν τελειώνουμε έτσι εύκολα εμείς || we dont break up so easily σαν αγέρας που σε καίει μες τη νύχτα || like the wind that burns you in the night όποια πόρτα κι αν ανοίξεις θα με βρεις || whichever door you open, you will find me. Βαμμένα κόκκινα μαλλιά καληνύχτα || Dyed red hair, good night του χρόνου πάλι θα σε θυμηθώ || Next year I will remember you again... Καληνύχτα || Good night... Σ' αγαπώ || I love you. * I think this means why not go into oblivion However the word oblivion has come to mean unconsciousness or even death, so I dont think a direct translation would be right here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post 1. και μια δάφνη || Dyed red hair and a laurel leafστο χέρι για παρηγοριά || in your hand for comfort 2. γιατί θυμάσαι πάντα τα λάθη || why always remember the mistakes γιατί δε φεύγεις για τη λησμονιά || why not forget everything * 3. ποιος τάζει της ζωής το χειμώνα || Who promises the winter of life και ποιος φοβάται το Χριστό || and who fears Christ? * I think this means why not go into oblivion However the word oblivion has come to mean unconsciousness or even death, so I dont think a direct translation would be right here. Geske, Kate, Micki, 1. I like there this "laurel leaf" most. Could anyone give us the more complete symbolic mening of it here? Obviously, victory. But does it have any connections with death, too? I can't remember at the moment. And it seems to me an important question in this text. 2. I like more the introduction of a question, and not kind of a statement here. This "why"? I have still my problems with this "λησμονία". Literally speaking, it is oblivion, then forgetting everything, not only everyday events. But, simplified, the two verses have for me the meaning like this: Why do you always remember mistakes and do not try to forget them? 3. Perhaps are those "sheets" in slight connections to the sheets used for a dead person in the grave. I do not even mean the kind of first appearance of Fatme in the book, but this "winter of the life" (her violent death?) and, fear of the judgement? This would make together a sense of those lines. Otherwise I can not understand so well, what this "fear of Christ" could mean here as a literaric motive. Therefore my question to the symbolic meaning of the laurel leaf. Can it be taken as symbol of death then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Aha, even if I asked the question already: what is the difference between δάφνη & πικροδάφνη then? This well known "mirtia kai pikrodafni" could then be a kind of support in answering my question. Nikola, you are the expert in botanic here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Kate, thank you. "dyed red hair" or "hair dyed red"? If I remember my positional grammer correctly, the first ought to mean "red hair that has been dyed another colour", and the second "hair that has been dyed red". And I would want the second meaning. The 'γιατί as "why" or "because" is a fine problem - I think it's an ambiguity in Greek that we have no way of keeping in English. Olga, I am going to ignore your esoteric queries. They don't make sense to me, and I think you are looking for things that are not there. As for the botanical question: Δάφνη is the laurel, botanical name Laurus nobilis, known in the kitchen as 'bay leaf' - it's the stuff they make crowns from, for winners of chariot races and such, and also the stuff you put into the stew. Such a useful little shrub! Πικροδάφνη is the oleander, the tall swaying bush with long narrow leaves and long bright white or pink blossoms, trumpet-shaped, that you find all over southern Europe - e.g. in great profusion along the highway from Patra to Athens, and many other greek roads. Its botanical name is Nerium Oleander, it is poisonous, and botanically not related to the laurel at all (but to the perrywinkle - latin: Vinca major and Vinca minor - which we do have in the North). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post btw, everyone, I apologize for being rather lazy with the posting of song translations these days. Not putting as much time into it as I used to. So very convenient for you than that I reminded you with my other post, for this one, isn't it? Interesting turn this is taking. I never thought that a song that I love so much, followed by songs on the CD that I love so much, would lead to a lesson in biology, geography (or whatever lesson) that is not related to the meaning of this nice song imho. I have to do something about it, to get the magic feeling again, when I think of this song, or hear it. Soon. Very soon. Micki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Thank you, Geske. But I found this also: Dafni, laurel, an attribute of Asklepios (the aroma of it should prevent from the plague, being rotten, and from bad ghosts, too). Was called "the repentant, penitent tree". The Latin name: "laurus", derivated from "luo, lavo", remains in connection with this cleansing power". The violent fading of laurel trees was in the ancient and mediaeval time understood like the message (or expecting) of death of the ruler, in the own garden - death in the own home After: The dictionary of symbols, Dorothea Forstner, edition Warsaw 1990. The dictionary of symbols, Wladyslaw Kopalinski, edition Warsaw 1990. I think, this has to do with the text we try to translate - and interpret. Everyone can see, that is not easy. And I feel not ignored, but offended by your first remarks, while the others are very useful for me. Olga Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Translating. I translate for me, in order to understand, and NOT to interpret. Interpretations and literary analysis make me want to bite. Posting. I post for others, and definitely NOT in order to spoil the song for them. Whatever the difficulties and drawbacks and misunderstandings, I come back to it, for the *co* (co-operation, co-laboration, co-translation, co-munication... whatever...) - am I the only one? Micki, I wish more people would remind me to post things, these days, and I wish I could thank you for reminding me, and I wish I could do something to protect the magic of the song against the too bright light of rational enquiry. Maybe ignore the talk, and listen to the singing. What was it Dalaras said in that memorable interview with Lalas - something like "I'm not a schoolmaster, I have no lessons to teach anyone, but I could sing you something if you like". I won't apologize for looking up the latin name of the flowers. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". I like flowers and I like botanical latin and if someone confuses that with showing off, well... don't, that's all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Ach, paidia! Pax! "A rose is a rose is a rose"- something like that said G.Stein, I think. No showing off is seen, at least from my point of view, by anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Geske, just the botanical latin you gave is OK for me, after all I asked those details. But do allow me to ask about certain words and meanings not only on the obvious level of the pure translation with dictionaries. Texts like this one need interpretation, too (surely those verses with laurel, comfort, winter of life, fear of Christ). Otherwise I can sometimes not understand them. How do you understand this verse then? I still can't, unless I try to see some connections of motives. Do allow me to ask. And esoteric means not necessarily irrelevant, Geske. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 9, 2003 · Report post Dear Geeske You said 'I come back to it, for the *co* (co-operation, co-laboration, co-translation, co-munication... whatever...) - am I the only one?' I think I can say, very happily and very definitely, that you are not. During the time I've spent cataloguing the translations it's become very clear how much of a co-operative effort this has been. It's really great to see how many members have contributed. Sometimes perhaps the enthusiasm for translating may mean that someone forgets about what has already been done, so perhaps I can gently remind everyone here about 'our' 'list of translated songs', which is still kept up to date . And for the same reason you really shouldn't feel the need to apologise for not posting translations recently (after all where would that leave me ) I believe that no-one should feel under an obligation to post anything. Everyone contributes what they can - which isn't to say that we can't feel grateful to and thank the members like Micki and you, of course, who have contributed so much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 25, 2003 · Report post Some thoughts on ΠΟΥ¨ΝΑΙ ΠΟΥ¨ΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΑΙΔΑΚΙ: Firstly I wish to thank Geeske for her translation; I heard this song some years ago for the first time , but until now I had only a diffuse idea about its content. Once I grasped it, I tried to make more of it in my mother tongue. It's surely okay translating Παιδάκι by 'kid', but if you are aware the whole of the song it's clear that a certain type of a young boy is meant. He is a trickster, a young rascal. In German we have therefore several expressions: 'Pfiffikus', 'Schlawiner', 'Schlingel' and maybe others. For the German-speaking community in the Club here's my translation. Viel Spaß ! WO IST NUR DER SCHLINGEL ? Wo ist er nur, der Schlingel ? Und wohin verfolgen ihn die Bauernlümmel ? Wo ist er, wo ist er, der Kleine, der blond-brünette ? Seine Mutter ist ein Distelfink und sein Vater aus Athen. Sie lehrten ihn das Leben von einem grünen kleinen Zweig herab. Sein Onkel ist ein Platanenbaum und sein Großvater aus der Mani. Sie belehrten ihn über das Wasser und wie kostbar es ist. Seine Patin ist eine Schwalbe und aus Smyrna die Großmutter. Sie lehrten ihn die Geheimnisse des Entgleitens in die Dunkelheit. Da ist er, da ist der Schlingel, sie droschen auf ihn, die Bauernlümmel, der ihnen die Lottoscheine nahm und dafür ein Boot kaufte Da ist er, da ist er, der Kleine, der blond-brünette ! Herbert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 27, 2003 · Report post Herbert, vielen Dank fuer die deutsche Version. Aber mal ehrlich, es hoert sich in griechisch doch viel besser an! mit ein Grund, warum ich keine 'woertlichen' Uebersetzungen brauche. Mir reicht es wenn ich den Sinn eines Liedes erfasse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted December 28, 2003 · Report post Anna, natürlich, der gesungene (!) Text am schönsten immer in Griechisch ! Ich singe aber nicht ständig, sondern versuche genau so wie Du, den Sinn der vielen Lieder, die ich höre, zu verstehen. Ich bin weder des Griechischen noch des Englischen so mächtig, dass ich Liedtexte auf Anhieb verstehe. Also greife ich zu Lexika und übersetze in meine Muttersprache. Warum ? Weil ich mir dann am sichersten bin, verstanden zu haben. Und ich schreibe mir auf , was ich übersetzt habe, weil ich die Erfahrung gemacht habe, dass man so einiges wieder vergisst, wenn man Lieder längere Zeit nicht mehr gehört hat. Manchmal meine ich, dass unsere deutsche Sprache auch schön klingen kann, oder dass sie Ausdrucksformen hat, die andere Sprachen so nicht haben ( oder ich diese nicht kenne). Bei dem Lied Πουνε το παιδαάκι reizte es mich, diese Möglichkeiten einmal auszuprobieren. Und ich wollte, dass andere daran teilhaben, auch wenn ich natürlich weiß, dass es nie sehr viele sein werden. Herbert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites