A member misses the Community

[Michael 2]

Well, I could have written this posting also in the topic "Some thoughts about the Club", but finally I thought that it is worth to publish it as an own unit.

I think most of us will remember the member NIKH (sometimes she appeared also with other names). A number of members felt annoyed by her postings (me too sometimes) but there happened something that NIKH obviously did not deserve:

Some days ago another member of the Forum reminded me of her and told me that NIKH does not have access from her computer to send private messages. I thought that this may simply have to do with some technical problems on her computer and so I wrote NIKH a regular e-mail. She sent me an answer and I was completely astonished about her message: NIKH all the time is locked out from the Club by the webmaster (Nikolas) therefore there were no postings from her all the last weeks!! She has no access to participate in the Club! Maybe that many of you knew about this fact I didn't (not even that it was already the second time that she is locked out)!

Well, maybe that NIKH has done some terrible things that made it really inevitable for Nikolas to throw her out. NIKH told me that this is not the case and I tend to believe her because at least until know I also do not know about such a big misbehaviour from her side. I can only judge from what I have read by NIKH in the Club (= her postings) and what she told me in her e-mail. And on this basis I can only regard it as very unfair that she has no longer access to the Club.

Therefore I was immediately ready to do what NIKH asked me for: To help her that she can come back to the Club. She agreed that I tell about it directly in the Club. And I think it will be the best to quote the most essential parts of the e-mail she sent to me:

" It was nice to read friendly stuff but I was sure that you knew or at least that [= the member of the Club that reminded me of NIKH] had told you that Nikolas has thrown me out again, this time seems for good, though there was hardly a NEW reason for this, this time, it was something with [a certain other member] who wrote an unfriendly post indirectly addressed to me, so I of course responded equally, Nikolas learned it...and that was it.

I miss the club, the info on Giorgos and the other stuff and of course the posts of people that I considered friends or at least friendly, and since you belong to them [] I am using this oportunity to ask you directly if you would please try to make Nikolas let me back in the club []"

Well, I think that it is not necessary to add many words. I have the feeling that obviously there is a person who would like so much to be in this Community again and who is very sad because this possibility is taken from her.

As we see just these days, there are conflicts between other members too, but I do not think that Nikolas (or anyone else) has the idea to lock one (or more) of them out of the Club. (And of course I also think that it would not be justified.) So why exactly NIKH? If she does not behave correctly when writing a certain posting (something that happened by other members too, as we know) it is possible to react either by writing an own posting or by sending her a private message. I have the impression that NIKH is willing to accept critics and to learn from her mistakes. So I can see no reason to lock her out from the Club.

It seems that in the case of NIKH it would be very simple to make a person happy. The only thing that is necessary is some good will on behalf of Nikolas and a minimum of acceptance (or even less - let's call it: patience) on behalf of the members who are not on good terms with NIKH.

I hope that her wish will become reality and that she will have again the possibility to participate in the Club.

[celeste 0]

Well Michael, I agree with everything you said. I had my disagreements with NIKH openly in the forum, she made me jump of my chair many times but I'm totally in favour of her return. She loves all this stuff, the forum, the provocation, the arguments, Giorgos Dalaras ( a little too much for many members taste! ). I'd rather have a member like NIKH who, I speak for myself now, at least always played fairly and openly than another one who for example lately, insulted Nighthawk in a pm while trying to play the victim in the forum. (fortunately, this member wrote very little so far). Anyway, I've expressed myself in favour of that a couple of times and I've also told more than a couple of times that the forum is a democratic place so I should stop because I'm starting to sound like my grandma, repeating the same stuff endlessly.

Michael, du bist mutig! ( I'm trying some German, at least, that's original - hope I wrote it correctly)

[nighthawk 0]

All I can say is that I don't see anything particularly wrong with Nikh. We've had disagreements but that's ok between grown up people. And one must admit she brought a certain animation to the forums. Personally, I'm all for Nikh's return, naturally.

[Marijke 23]

Also I think there's no real reason for blocking Nikh out. There have been many more members having different views and that's ok by me. Why not? Why should we all be the same?

I 've read her posts and also I found some annoying or sometimes respectless,but I've seen posts towards her too being so. But also she was sometimes very honoust too and also she was funny.

It seems to me unfair why she is blocked. Can this happen to other members too?

[Michael 2]

Would just like to add a detail because I was not sure about this by myself. After asking NIKH about it, now she wrote to me:

"I just want to make clear to you that I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE CLUB AT ALL, I CANNOT GET IN, LOG IN, SO I CANNOT READ, THE DOOR IS CLOSED,for my computer What I CAN do is go in the REST of the site, but NOT in the Forum, [...]"

:blink: That means that obviously she cannot even look at the site of the Club!

[nighthawk 0]

Michael started this topic. Celeste, Marijke and I have written something. I am indeed apalled at how nobody else seems to give a damn about the situation... Oh, well, that's what the world is about - or is it not?

[MarianS 0]

some people do care Nighthawk, I care, but what can I say???

we have had so many discussions like this one before and in all kinds of words we have told eachother that we should respect on and other, but somehow the word -respect- has more than one meaning.

I'm tired of this. I'm sorry for NIKH. I wish I could make a diffrence, but I dont have the illusion I can..............

[celeste 0]

I wish I could make a diffrence, but I dont have the illusion I can..............

Even one single person can make the difference, Marian!

[franz averstegge 5]

For all the members who have forgotten the posts NIKH,Phoenix,Athinaia,

Albert Einstein,Baron Minghhausen.............and so on,wrote, I recommend

to read again!!!!

I don't think,that Nikolas bans a member without a good reason!!!

Franz

[Herbert 0]

Is there anybody who looked into the club members list ?

Look at page 43, there is NIKH !

NIKH is still member !!

I am surprised that Nikolas should have thrown out a member, but not make a deletion in the list. His whole site is so well-constructed that I can't imagine that he could be a lax administrator just in this point.

But if is thruth, hat NIKH has been closed out, she must have the possibility at least to look in to the forum. Everybody , who has Internet access and a suitable browser , can ! Reading is possible to everyone without Log in. Maybe NIKH should try it with a new browser.

If the truth is, that Nikolas only refused Log-in to NIKH, there must be very severe reasons. Nikolas must have the right to do this, because it is HIS site, and his interest (as well as the interest of all members) that the site remains protected against undesired activities. But such cases must be exceptions.

Anyway, Nikolas should give an explanation as soon as possible that this incredible discussion comes to end.

Herbert

[nikolas 86]

Michael and anybody who might be concerned

Athinaia told you that she is banned, she also said that it is not the case that she has done some terrible things and you tend to believe her and also, you can judge her from what she wrote in the Club.

What you don't know and probably haven't read is her many postings that I have deleted and you couldn't read, her several and repeated and most of all, not justified in any terms at all, abuses she gave to several other members for reasons that the only thing one can do is either laugh or get angry.

What also should make you a bit suspicious is that Athinaia herself never contacted me by email to ask me why I banned her. She probably knows perfectly well.

The truth is, yes, I did ban her permanently. Honestly, I don't want to discuss Athinaia's personality here, for two reasons. The first is that it is not my right to do so, and the second is that I don't want to give more importance to this issue as it deserves.

Athinaia, simply, has repeatedly abandoned the one simple rule of the forum. She was not the first one of course to do so. But she was the only one in the brief history of the forum who has done it so many times, who has been warned so many times, who has been given second chances so many times and who has completely understood nothing at all regarding her actions. Actually, I do believe that she does believe that she has done nothing at all.

Just to clear some things. Her last critical post was in 'Dalaras Photos'. Rena posted her wonderful photos, one after another. (for which I am grateful to her). After a series of 20-30 photos, one member posted a single line saying that she/he is speechless. This single line was among 30 photos of Rena. Just this single line, I repeat. Then came Athinaia's post:

...You were not ASKED to comment...

...It is true that I don't go with the stream , but why do YOU care?  

...WHY DO YOU READ MY STUFF?!...

However, can you imagine that you don't know people from here... that you do... and don't keep in touch with them, are you SURE that in that case you would be reacting to my post the way you did this time...and the previous time when I nicely asked you about the arrival of Julie.....

It's best this way, STAY speechless......because you show ILL feelings towards me every time you speak to me.  

..while I NEVER bothered you...

AND , are you sure you KNOW WHAT IT IS that hurts....NO, you don't know, you only THINK you know. Ask Julie, she knows... Or say nothing.

Now, at first I thought I might have been missing something. I very kindly asked Athinaia who she was aiming with her post, and also I read all the topic from the beginning to find anything suspicious (and I didn't). She then told me that she was aiming this member who sent this post in order to insult her. After this, I banned her. So, it was not like 'I learnt it and that was it', as you may understand.

Now you may find this decision unfair but there is too much behind the scenes that you have no idea about. I just wanted to tell you the last symptom.

A sensible question is why I totally denied access to her instead of just banning her nickname. In the past I wanted to ban her nickname again, and I directly told her that I am not doing it for one specific reason: to avoid the kind of situation where Athinaia comes with 10 different usernames, starts new topics with the one, asnwers with the second, agrees with the third and disagrees with the fourth. That is why I didn't do it before. To let her be herself, which was honest, at least. This time, since I decided to do this for the first time, I had to ban her from accessing the forum, not the site. She of course can access the forum from another computer, but not from her own.

Finally, just to catch you before any conclussions, this decision was mine. I have absolutely no precautions against Athinaia because of her behaviour to me, which you again might not know. I consider this decision fair and also late. Also, I have no illussions that Athinaia will change her aggressive and abusive behaviour, although she has -repeatedly- promised, as requested by me, to not perceive everybody in this world as her enemies and concentrate to Dalaras and greek music which are the subjects of this forum. The promises were taken but not followed, many times. Now, Athinaia will say that I listen to 'my friends' and ban her. The truth is that if I listened to 'my friends', I would have banned her from February. And also, she will think that I ban her because she is honest and I don't like it. Well...

that Nikolas has thrown me out again

This is the first time I throw her out. Once, the site had been down for 2-3 days because of problems in the backbone of USA. Nobody could access anything. Athinaia complained that I threw her out...

I miss the club, the info on Giorgos and the other stuff and of course the posts of people that I considered friends or at least friendly, and since you belong to them [] I am using this oportunity to ask you directly if you would please try to make Nikolas let me back in the club []"

She can perfectly access the website. Also, anybody who wants to keep in touch with Athinaia, I will provide them with her email address. Just sent me a private message.

In general, that is not a matter of good will on my side and of some acceptance on her side. I won't bring the discussion to this level. Athinaia had a lot of chances, she also had my protection when another member attacked her unfairly, which, if you remember, led him to leave. But after all, I won't be the spy of Athinaia in the forum. I 'd rather spend the same time in posting here, which I miss very much.

[Michael 2]

Nikolas, thank you for your explanations. Of course I do not know what happened in the background neither do I permanently read all the postings here in the Club. Surely Athinaia/NIKH (etc.) often behaved in a wrong way but (as I already wrote above) I had the impression that she is really willing to "improve".

Unfortunately it continues to be unclear for me if she can at least read the postings of other members (from her own computer). Because on the one hand you write:

I had to ban her from accessing the forum, not the site. She of course can access the forum from another computer, but not from her own.

On the other hand you say:

She can perfectly access the website.

???? What is the difference between the (web)site and the forum??

And what do you mean by "accessing": To participate actively (by logging in as a member and writing postings etc.) or to open the site by typing the URL in the browser???

I mean, it is so simple what I would like to know:

"Can she (from her own computer) at least take a look at the 'Dalaras Internet Community' and read the postings of other members?"

That means:

"Can she (from her own computer) watch the Forum (without logging in as a member and without the possibility to write)?"

Or with other words:

"Can she (from her own computer) be a passive visitor by typing www.dalaras.com/forum ?"

Or again with other words:

"Can she do (from her own computer) what everyone else can do who is not a member of the Forum/Community?"

[nikolas 86]

I thought it was very clear from my post, but anyway. Athinaia was banned from the forum. She can't visit the forum, neither as a member, nor as a visitor.

At the same time, she can perfectly access the rest of the website.

I hope this is clear now.

If this leaves you with a 'why', then read the above post. Athinaia is not welcome to participate in the forum. If she could read as a member, then she could also write, unless I banned her nickname from posting. And then, she would become a brilliant scientist or a historical general or whatever else (a different nickname anyway) and would write again.

And don't tell me that using names like Albert Einstein or Napoleon are something she would never think to do...

I don't think I have anything else to add in this topic...-

[Pikerni 0]

Ummm, seeing as how my name came up twice in Nikolas' post about NIKH... I don't even know to what it refers. If I caused someone to have hurt feelings, or whatever, please accept my appologies. I never did see that actual post by her, and well, I was pretty shocked and dismayed in seeing my name in the post which was used by Nikolas as his last straw against this woman. This is why I stay out and keep my mouth shut. I'm sorry if I offended anyone...

[Micki 1]

Athinaia/NIKH/... / ... was way out of line. Whatever her personal misery might have been, it's not any member's fault. So she had no right to behave here the way she did.

Imagine everybody with serious problems behaving like this here, offending, apologizing, offending again, etc etc... I think I don't have to draw a picture of that, do I?

Nikolas is - in my opinion very right in his decision. He draws the line. Athinaia stepped over it, didn't respect it, and she now knows the consequences. That's all there is to it.

And Pikerni, please don't feel personnally attacked here. I guess it comes from the fact that you have been attacked here so often, by people that don't even know you. It says a hell of a lot more about those people than it does about you. Remember that. For myself, I'm just so glad that the people that I appreciate so much here, are not the ones who offended you.

Micki

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Well done, Nikolas. Your and our work can not get lost in a way like this.

I say this in spite of my personal sympathy I feel for NIkh and her life after the war. In this matter, everybody could be in her situation.

Pikerni, I think, no reason to feel guilty at all. Everybody of us could be mentioned in the matter..... Keep the chin up there.

I want you back (a slight change of the sentence I got in the last days)

Olga

[Michael 2]

At least at the moment I do not have time and mood to write a detailed comment. I will make only a question concerning a technical matter:

Isn't it possible (from the technical point of view) to arrange that someone can open a website (from his computer) so that he can view this site as a visitor, and that he is only unable (from his computer) to register (and to to log in) as a member?

So a banned person would have at least the possibility to continue to view the site.

[nighthawk 0]

I don't think it is. At least not from what Nikolas said. I do feel sorry for Nikh but I guess the banning may be justified. Furthermore, it's Nikolas's site. What else can I add? These are the karma laws. You do something (good or bad) and it gets back to you multiplied. All you have to do is accept it, be strong and try to improve. Sorry if it sounds too metaphysical but I believe it's true and also it can be applied to Nikh's case in the forums...

[Olga Fendrych 0]

In another words of somebody else:

"everything you want the people to do for you, do for them"

I agree with both of you, Michael and Nighthawk.

Perhaps it is possible without bothering Nikolas too much.

[henk de leeuw 0]

Nikola,

I try to reach you by phone and e-mail.

Pls answer.

henkos

[celeste 0]

well, there was a missing piece in the puzzle and here it is.

As for me, call me an idealist, I still belive in forgiveness . As for the rest, I prefer thousands of issues with someone than sympathy coming from an hypocrit. I rest my case.

[nighthawk 0]

I don't think it is. At least not from what Nikolas said. I do feel sorry for Nikh but I guess the banning may be justified. Furthermore, it's Nikolas's site. What else can I add? These are the karma laws. You do something (good or bad) and it gets back to you multiplied. All you have to do is accept it, be strong and try to improve. Sorry if it sounds too metaphysical but I believe it's true and also it can be applied to Nikh's case in the forums...

Well, since I mentioned that karma thing, allow me just to speak a little of how I envision it, at least when I'm my more rational, calmer, better self... Karma must not be seen as some sort of punishment, even with it looks like it is. I believe maybe we choose the best options for ourselves (and others we relate to) before coming to this earth and we certainly do not choose to face anything we aren't able to. Faced with any situation, we always have several paths to choose from, from the easiest to the hardest, and it's really up to each of us to make the best of things as in a process of learning. I suppose life isn't meant to be easy but I can tell you I do not wish to remain an ignorant everytime I'm offered a chance to learn. As for Nikh, I would welcome her back but I could also have done as Nikolas did if I were in his shoes, so... Maybe she'll be able to get back one day and maybe she'll have learned something new by then, who knows? Anyway, perhaps this isn't the original topic but it could be interesting to know something about how you all envision life and existence. It's your choice to share your thoughts or keep them locked!

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Then, look to the "Dedications" topic of today and see, what music can do with a human being.

Je ne regrette rien .

To Nikh...... I wish her good choices in her life, still.

But Nikolas did a good work now.

New topic: would be nice indeed. Or could we come to the already existing "This week's topic"? It was invented for such cases, what does not suit in any previous drawer of the Forum (who says, life suits?)

Boa tarde!

Olga

[Daniel 0]

I have to say it's been a long while since I've visited this forum on a somewhat regular basis and I have, indeed, had the oportunity of following miss Nikh's constant changes of personality always ending up in some kind of amazing charade of insulting and sometimes ill placed sarcasm. I'm not at all sure I should be writing my views on this subject here, being "new" as I am, but I just had to state my opinion. Nikh was never, and that is in my watcher's opinion, a good element here. She always brought calamity about and a lot of disrespect for other members. I understand that some members here may feel a slice of pity for her current situation but who caused it all, in a continued manner, in the first place? I believe she must be very disturbed. Personally, I would not trust her and I think anybody who does in a way or another - that despite having pity on her character, naturally - is most probably very naive and certainly heading for trouble. Nikolas was very clear in his words, which I entirely subscribe. Fare you well, Nikh. Apparently, you weren't wanted here, so why stay?