panosb

Μια Δευτέρα

16 posts in this topic

Yesterday I was listening to the Classic FM TV.

There was a nice piano piece that was full of known tunes!

The piece's name is: Gnosienne No1 and was performed by Branka Parlic.

The typical same tunes are those of the following verses:

Μες τον κόσμο μια Δευτέρα ...then a variated tune of the verse's continuation άνοιξα πανιά...

At the part of Εικόνες κυνηγώ πρωί και βράδυ, the tune is repeated twice unchangable.

In general it is obvious that the tune is of Eastern type with some Balkanic influence...

In a commercial website (http://www.yu4you.com/items/en/cd/item_650.html) near the piece's name it is written 1890! I didn't have time to cheque more, but I felt the obligation to inform you.

So, is this the reason for which Dalaras never re-performed that song?!

If you get any details please let me know.

For club members in UK: you can watch in the evening that channel. Usually all the songs and pieces are shown everyday...

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panosb, εννοείς πως η μελωδία είναι κλεμμένη ή οτι μοιάζει πάρα πολύ με το Gnosienne No1??

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έχω ακούσει οτι η μελωδία είναι εμπνευσμένη από κάποιο τραγούδι δεν γνωρίζω αν πρόκειται για το Gnosienne No1

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Den eipa oti einai klemmenh... Aplws kapoia kommatia ths melwdias einai akribws opws auta tou "Mia Deutera"! Se shmeio pou nomiza oti to kommati auto einai empneusmeno apo to Ellhniko tragoudi :blink:

Kwnstantina: Den prosexa an grafei kati tetoio sto bibliaraki tou CD (shmeiwsh: to CD to agorasa MONO gi'auto to tragoudi). Alla den to briskw ka8olou api8ano na einai empneusmeno apo thn Gnosienne 1!

An kaneis exei kamia parapanw plhroforia...as mas thn pei...

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The composer of the Gnossiennes, Eric Satie, was an extremely curious and amusing composer, with a fairly devastating sense of humour.

I don't know all that much about him, but certainly eating up some gypsy tunes and digesting them into his own work is very like him. And I am convinced that he would laugh his head off and approve highly, if his tune in turn got digested into a modern greek song - especially such a nice one.

And here is a link.

http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/satie.html

to a very good (and highly entertaining) page about him.

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Nice page! But back to my concern.

So is the tune a gypsi one that was used by different people?

Because look, Minws Matsas has composed all the songs of the album "O magos ths polhs". I heard also some other songs by his music...and all his tunes are really beautiful.

So, I can't believe that he "copied" a tune, even if it is from a non-popular work.

Enjoy the link...But till I find an answer to my concern I'll keep searching...

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Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly - I don't know the tune, I don't know Satie's work well enough to know the Gnossiennes by heart! So I don't know IF he pinched it, and if so, where from.

But I do know that composer MUST eat each other's music in other to feed their own.

It's a favourite game among musicians of all times to pick a known tune and play with it until it becomes new music. In Jazz it's called a jam-session, when Mozart does it to the Dutch national hymn it's called Variationen, and Arto Tuncboyaciyan calls his own Avant-Garde Folk... but it's all just music being made.

This is in the cases where the musician is aware, conscious, of taking a known tune as starting point.

There is also the case of the composers who write songs that sound as if they have always existed. It's got nothing to do with how good a composer they are, it's a certain type or kind of tune. Illustration: I heard someone on the radio the other day say that if Vamvakaris had been born half a century earlier, he might have written pretty much the same music, and we would still be playing it and admiring it just the same, but without his name on it, as Paradosiaka. I have said the same thing about some tunes of Tsitsanis (yes, I know it's cheek!). And Theodorakis has a knack for it.

But if you write a tune and it sounds so "right" that it sounds like it already existed before, how can you be sure that you haven't heard it, forgotten hearing it, but remembered the tune? You can't be sure. It does happen. Especially with stick-to-the-ear tunes from relatively unknown composers, such as this.

btw. I agree with you about Minos Matsas - that is, the songs by him that I know, I like.

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I am not an expert on the field of music but the similarity between this certain part of "Mia Devtera" and the melody by Satie seems to me quite strong. So strong that it is difficult for me to think that it is pure coincidence.

Here you can listen to a sample of Satie's piece (you have to click on piece 7 in the list in the middle of the page):

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000...7934626-2535764

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Doxa tw 8ew! I was about to believe that I had auditory hallucinations... At least there is somebody else who has the same concern..

Thank you Michael.

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Thanks for the link, Michael.

It's quite convincing :)

If Minos Matsas is a pianist, the kind that was sent to piano lessons as a little boy, it's not unlikely that he played this (I know that Satie is much used by some piano teachers) and forgot about and reinvented it (or rather his fingers remembered it for him).

The other possibility is that he simply quoted a tune he knew and judged his changes to it big enough to justify not putting Satie's name on the record sleeve. And I don't know that I blame him.

It's been ages since I listened to any Satie....... I used to have a neighbour who played this stuff softly late at night, very atmosferic.

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Dalaras magic strikes again..........

I turn off Radio Melodia to listen to Satie via Michael's link

I listen to Satie

I write a post

I turn Radio Melodia back on

and I hear: ta ixnh sou zito mes'to skotaaaaaaadi

I ought to be used to it by now but I still get heart attack from these things.

If you don't believe me, ring them up and ask what song Kostas Thomaidis was playing at 21.18 (greek time).

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:blink: :):)

Obviously all of us should read more carefully the booklets of the CDs. Just now I have taken a look and I see what Matsas writes (on the page of the booklet with the lyrics of the song "Mia Devtera"):

"Από και προς τον Erik Satie, που μου εμπιστεύτηκε μια στιγμή της πολυτάραχης ζωής του. Μ.Μ." !!! :)

("From and to Erik Satie who entrusted me a moment of his turbulent life.")

Obviously Minos Matsas is not Manos Hatzidakis: Matsas admits (at least indirectly) when he uses the works of other composers. :)

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Obviously Minos Matsas is not Manos Hatzidakis: Matsas admits (at least indirectly) when he uses the works of other composers. :)

Hi hi.... :lol:

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Dalaras magic bis.

(it's one of those radio nights.....)

now it's a spanish version of the same song... very pianistic... 'la flor d'Istanbul' is the title but I was too late to catch the rest of the details.

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"Από και προς τον Erik Satie, που μου εμπιστεύτηκε μια στιγμή της πολυτάραχης ζωής του. Μ.Μ."

Ahaaa...

Forgive me folks, but I don't have the CD with me...when I travel, I carry only the tunes in my mind.

When I bought the CD I didn't know who Satie was?

Thank you Michael for giving us the definit answer... But, still I prefer Matsas' version of the music :)

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