χωρίς φεγγάρια

[Geske 37]

ΧΩΡΙΣ ΦΕΓΓΑΡΙΑ | | | With no moons

[/i]p.s. A newer translation on correctly punctuated lyrics is posted at the end of the topic. [/i]

Μουσική: Μίκης Θεοδωράκης | | | Music: Mikis Theodorakis

Στίχοι: Κώστας Τριπολίτης | | | Lyrics: Kostas Tripolitis

Γυαλίζουν οι προφυλακτήρες | | | The bumpers are shining

κι αντηχούν τα φρένα | | | and the brakes squeak

τα μάτια έκλεισες και πήρες | | | You closed your eyes and took

την πόλη αυτή μαζί με μένα | | | this city together with me

Αγάπη μου χωρίς φεγγάρια | | | My love, with no moons

χωρίς λουλούδια χάρτινα | | | with no paper flowers

δικιά σου πάρ' τηνα | | | take it as your own

Σφυρίζουν έξω οι σειρήνες | | | Outside the sirens are howling

κι έχει ξημερώσει | | | and dawn has come

βαρύ πιοτό και ασπιρίνες | | | heavy drink, and aspirin,

τ' όνειρό μου έχουν σκοτώσει | | | have killed my dream

Αγάπη μου χωρίς φεγγάρια | | | My love, with no moons

χωρίς λουλούδια χάρτινα | | | with no paper flowers

δικιά σου πάρ' τηνα | | | take it as your own

[Michael 2]

Αγάπη μου χωρίς φεγγάρια My love, with no moons

χωρίς λουλούδια χάρτινα with no paper flowers

δικιά σου πάρτηνα my very own

Have the Greeks an idea about the meaning of "πάρτηνα"?? It reminds me of an imperative (προστακτική), but I am not sure.

In the Internet I found only the following (from an interview with the actor [and singer] Ρένα Βλαχοπούλου:

"EP. [Ερώτηση]: H στροφή από το τραγούδι στο σινεμά πώς συνέβη;

AΠ. [Απάντηση]: Eκεί που τραγουδούσα, είχε έρθει ένα βράδυ ο Δαλιανίδης, με είδε και ενθουσιάστηκε τρομερά. Πήγε στο Φίνο και του είπε: «Bρε συ, αν δεν τη δεις αυτή θα χάσεις». «Tι να την κάνω μωρέ, τι να την κάνω;» του λέει ο Φίνος. Eπέμενε ο Δαλιανίδης: «Aμα σου λέω, πάρτηνα, γιατί έχει πολύ ταλέντο και στο λέγειν και στο χορό, στα πάντα». Eν πάση περιπτώσει ήρθε ο Φίνος, με είδε κι αυτός, τον εντυπωσίασα και με έβαλε στο «Mερικοί το προτιμούν κρύο»."

[Geske 37]

I had no idea myself, but I've had some suggestions by PM

One is that it's a contraction of πάρε την

Another is that it's related to πάρτη, as in the expression για την πάρτη μου (=για τον εαυτούλη μου)

another (which I followed) simply suggested translating it as "it's yours...take it" (agreeing with the first).

me, I don't know!

[panosb 0]

First I must make it clear that I don't remember hearing that song.

But by reading the lyrics I was trapped in the meaning of what Micheal mentioned.

πάρτηνα sounds take it...but makes no sence...

για την πάρτη μου (=για τον εαυτούλη μου). It sounds a foreign word by all means...maybe it originates from the word "part" or "party"

it's yours...take it. WHAT is he asking his love to take? :blink:

Any other suggestions?

[Michael 2]

In the meantime I found out something that it is more or less the proof that it is indeed an imperative (προστακτική). Of course I had the same doubt with you, Panos: If it is an imperative, what is he asking his love to take? But looking again at the lyrics, I think I found an answer to this question too.

But as I am in a hurry now, I will write the explanations later on this evening.

[panosb 0]

Panos: If it is an imperative, what is he asking his love to take?

Hey..I was asking you (all) I wasn't challenging you.

I want to know WHAT...

Anyway...I'll wait till Michael comes back and tells us what he found...

[Michael 2]

1.

Here my "proof":

I removed a heap of books and made a look into "Μίκης Θεοδωράκης Μελοποιημένη Ποίηση / Α τόμος / Τραγούδια". That's more or less the "official" edition with the lyrics of all songs with music by Theodorakis. And there they write:

"δικιά σου πάρ τηνα" (με τόνο στο "α" και απόστροφο μετά το "ρ")

So I think we can be sure that this is the correct version.

(By the way, it's a good example for the importance of using the apostrophe and accent [where necessary], e.g.not mixing "πως" with "πώς", "που" with "πού" etc. The way it is written on the cover of the record is obviously wrong. )

And this fits also with the "πάρτηνα" (also written in the wrong way) in my above extract of the interview with Ρένα Βλαχοπούλου (where it has obviously the same meaning).

The strange thing is the α of "τηνα". Usually, if there is a deviation from the standard "την" it is "τηνε" (with ε).

2.

And what does the "την(α)" refer to? Obviously to the word "η πόλη". That's the the only word which fits grammatically to the "τηνα". And it seems that it makes (a certain) sense: First we have "... πήρες την πόλη αυτή με μένα". And afterwards the "δικιά σου πάρ τηνα".

Well, although I think I found out some details about the songs, all this strengthens my opinion: Here (as in other songs) we can simply exchange concepts as anyway we do not understand what's the meaning of the one or the other version. Tripolitis in most of the cases is "κουλτουριάρικο", something that wants to be poetry by being obscure and artificial. (There are a lot of similar examples in song lyrics by Tripolitis, not only on this record.)

[panosb 0]

You know Michael..you discovered something very important...More important than "parthne".. You discovered that we were all absent minded!!!! :blink:

πήρες την πόλη αυτή με μένα...

We were all concerned about one word without searching for its relations!!! And guess what? The SAME verb is used!!!!!

Good job Michael and you don't need to "strengthen" your opinion...

But still you can send the details...just because the might (or will) be interesting

[Michael 2]

But still you can send the details...just because the might (or will) be interesting  

:lol: That was a misunderstanding: With "details" I meant the "πάρ τηνα" and the connection with the the word "πόλη". Sorry, I cannot offer any more details (at least at the moment). I admit that it was an exaggeration to write "some details" when I had only two.

[Geske 37]

Hurray!

I'll edit the correction into the Greek text then!

Michael I think we are disagreeing about Tripolitis the same ways as about Ganas... I like them because their verses mean something to me and you dislike them because they make no sense to you... I say mean "something" - actually they mean a lOt of things, most of them implicit, intuitive, and obscure - which is probably why their poems sometimes are obscure too and they get accused of doing it on purpose to assess superiority. I don't think they do - it's just they way they are.

I don't mean "you ought to understand" - on the contrary actually.

It seems to me more an argument for DIVERSITY

having lots of different poets with different ways of expressing themselves so we can all find something we like "and the gates of paradise open for greek song" as Dalaras put it the other day in the Elle interview.

[Michael 2]

Michael I think we are disagreeing about Tripolitis the same ways as about Ganas...

I do not remember that (and what) we spoke about Ganas. But it is true: It I do not appreciate his way of writing too. Too much obscure for my (simple) mind. :lol:

[Geske 37]

Χωρίς φεγγάρια _____||_____ With no moons

Μουσική: Μίκης Θεοδωράκης_____||_____ Music: Mikis Theodorakis

Στίχοι: Κώστας Τριπολίτης_____||_____ Lyrics: Kostas Tripolitis

Γυαλίζουν οι προφυλακτήρες_____||_____ The bumpers are shining

κι αντηχούν τα φρένα_____||_____ and the brakes squeak

τα μάτια έκλεισες και πήρες_____||_____ You closed your eyes and took

... την πόλη αυτή μαζί με μένα_____||_____ ... this city - together with me

Αγάπη μου χωρίς φεγγάρια_____||_____ My love, with no moons,

χωρίς λουλούδια χάρτινα_____||_____ with no paper flowers

... δικιά σου πάρ' τηνα_____||_____ ... she's all yours, take her

Σφυρίζουν έξω οι σειρήνες_____||_____ Outside the sirens are howling

κι έχει ξημερώσει_____||_____ and dawn has come

βαρύ πιοτό και ασπιρίνες_____||_____ Heavy drink and aspirin

... τ' όνειρό μου έχουν σκοτώσει_____||_____ ... have killed my dream