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ΘΑΝΑΣΗΣ ΠΟΛΥΜΗΧΑΝΟΣ

John Barleycorn

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Maki, εκτός από τις λεπτομέρειες που ανέφερες, η εξωτερική εμφάνιση είναι η ίδια με αυτήν του CD ή διαφέρει γενικά;

Michael η εξωτερική εμφάνιση είναι ίδια, και τα χρώματα και οι γραμματοσειρές, αλλά στο οπισθόφυλλο του LP υπάρχει και μια φωτογραφία των Jethro tull, που δεν υπάρχει στο cd προφανώς λόγω χώρου.

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:) Wow, you will possibly have a chance to speak with Dalaras' team or even himself?

Well, I said IF I have the chance

but for sure Ill try

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Geske, in this case I am not "Record Collector" but only "Record Informations Collector". ;) I have only two of the mentioned issues (and these are the wrong ones).

Maki, σ ευχαριστώ για τις πρόσθετες πληροφορίες πάνω στο LP. :)

Anna, because of your "if" I was careful and wrote "possibly". ;)

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;)

Hi guys,

I wanted too add my 2 cents in worth too.

A long time ago I had presented the same story line to Nikolas.

And he infomred me through the site Dalaras accompanied Jethro Tull in this participation song in English but was also aware it was not found on the US release.

Let me explain:

You see I went immediately to buy the cd at a music store never hearing of the group before or knew whom or what they sing.

Well the song was on there allright and so were the same titles listed above and names of places where they toured at including that of Athens.

But nothing of Dalaras singing in there,

In fact his name wasn;t even mentioned as Special Guest Star.

:mad:

So I was angry when I botught it even though I liked how Ian Anderson sang and of the song john Barleycorn.

but

I was not going to keep it so I returned it.

Then later on when the Music Box came out maybe 6 months or a year later, I finally got to hear the song and let me tell you

what a difference it was.

Dalaras definately has a Greek Accent singing English and he can't cover it up.

However,

He did his best trying to sound like a Greek British Dialect and that he does really good -. Almost sounding Authentic but not quite because even Ian Anderson voice doesn't quite sound Amercan as it shouldn't be since he is British so Dalaras' accent comes closer to mimiking an English dialect more so then an American one.

Well let me tell you then that song after hearing the two of them sing together was well worth the price of the Music Box alone as I've never heard Dalaras sing in English and was always curious as to how he would sound like a Native or Foreigner - alas the latter.

And ever since then I like the song alot.

And you can see even though its his voice coming out , he can't mask it,

meaning to cover up his way of singing so you can tell its him singing by his voice;

he did a splendid job though singing a Rock Blues genre

and not making it come out as that of a Rembetiko or Laiko style of singing.

In other words, he crossed over the genre with no problem.

And the Harmony sounded good with him singing with Jetro Tull.

:)

And since then I have tried to re-capture the original recordings as best as I can whenever Dalaras sings some one elses songs

including Ariel Ramirez "Misa Criolla" with 'Jose Carreras' singing the mass.

Except for all the recent operas Dalaras sung in Italian from the " IERA ODOS II" cd with Frangoulis as I don't even know where to look to begin to find those except maybe from Berrcelli the blind vocalist.

So not surprisingly, I re-purchased the "Little Light Music" cd again

from a local store as to compare just Jethro Tull singing it alone

and that with the one from Dalaras participation in the Musiko Kouti

and now I like both versions.

;)

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Dalaras definately has a Greek Accent singing English and he can't cover it up.

However, He did his best trying to sound like a Greek British Dialect and that he does really good -. Almost sounding Authentic but not quite because even Ian Anderson voice doesn't quite sound Amercan as it shouldn't be since he is British so Dalaras' accent comes closer to mimiking an English dialect more so then an American one.

hm

Christo, sorry, but either you don't know what you are saying, or you are not saying what you mean :)

there is nothing either british or dialectal about Dalaras' pronunciation of English - he's got pretty strong Greek accent, though his diction is extremely clear. About the "r" sounds, it resembles the italian accent. Also in the clear but undiferentiated «a» and «o» sounds (greek and italian both have a much, much smaller set of vowel sounds than english). But you can tell he's greek by the words ending in "-ing", "-ong" etc - example: «long» become «longk» because that "-ong" sound does exist in greek, but only ever with a K after it.

As for sounding "authentic"... any local variant of english or american would be ok, i think because the song is very widely distributed - it's so old that it got taken across when america was settled, i think.

what's authentic about Dalaras' version is that he is a folk musician singing a folk song - you could say that "John Barleycorn" is in some ways a british counterpart of "Oso varoun ta sidera" (an ancient traditional song that got widely spread and is circulating both in traditional and modern interpretations). On the other hand Dalaras' accent is definitely foreign, and nothing else - well, yes, i personnally find it very lovely, but that's a matter of taste.

In any case, the song comes under folk-rock, and nowhere near blues. And the reference in greek would be the paradosiaka, not the laika or the rembetica.

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.

you mean surely Andrea Bocelli, don't you, Christo?

Yes Olga thats who I was referring too

I didn't know his name

And theres a Neno vocalist too also from Italy who sings these opera songs' but can't seem to remember his name either.

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[- you could say that "John Barleycorn" is in some ways a british counterpart of "Oso varoun ta sidera" (an ancient traditional song that got widely spread and is circulating both in traditional and modern interpretations).

:)

OK my turn now.

What on earth are you talking about?

Well I've never heard Oso Varoun Ta Sidera sung in any other way or in any other culter other then that as a Greek "Kritiko Sytro".

It's referenced as Dimotiko and settled in Crete

from the Greek Face abum.

And if you've ever heard Nikos Xylouris sing it, you will hear it sung by him with a Cretan Dialect vs. the Laiko Dialect from a singer who's from Athens or somewhere else.

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Going back to my first reply,

I still don't understand as to why there were two releases made for this Live CD.

Did Jethro Tull really think they couldn't sell their Cd in the states or United Kingdom had they featured the participated Artists like that of Dalaras who accompanied them on their tour from in the guest Artist's home European Countries?

If so, then why ask these guest performers to participate in the colloboration in the first place if there was no intention on referencing them at all on their cd recordings distributed across over seas?

:)

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Καλημέρα σε όλους.Ένα πρόβλημα στην εισαγωγή του FORUM με εμπόδισε στο να δώσω χθες τις πληροφορίες που συνέλλεξα σχετικά με το τραγούδι.Ευτυχώς ο ΜΑΚΗΣ ήταν σε ετοιμότητα.Κατ'αρχήν συγνώμη για το τυπογραφικό λάθος που έκανα και το έγραψα ως JOHN BARCLEYCORN και όχι ως JOHN BARLEYCORN.Επειδή τώρα ,όπως λέει ο λαός,οι φίλοι στις δύσκολες στιγμές φαίνονται,οφείλω να ευχαριστήσω το νέο μέλος του CLUB ΘΩΜΑ ΠΑΤΕΝΤΑ που μου παραχώρησε το "ΜΟΥΣΙΚΟ ΚΟΥΤΙ"του (το οποίο είναι σε ΕΠΑΝΕΚΔΟΣΗ),έτσι ώστε να κάνω μία διερεύνηση.Όντως η εκτέλεση που βρίσκεται στην επανέκδοση είναι η ίδια με το LP στην οποία τραγουδάει ο ΝΤΑΛΑΡΑΣ.Για τη σειρά των τραγουδιών ,πληροφορίες εξωφύλλου κλπ τα έγραψε ο ΜΑΚΗΣ.Απλώς να προσθέσω ότι στο LP υπήρχε ένα πρόσθετο κόκκινο αυτοκόλλητο που έγραφε FEAUTURING GEORGE DALARAS,VOCALS.Ακόμα στο εσωτερικό του εξωφύλλου στα special thanks αναγράφεται και το όνομα του ΝΤΑΛΑΡΑ.Όσον αφορά τις διαφορές του εξωφύλλου του CD που έβαλε ο MICHAEL ,στο δικό μου cd πάνω από το CHRYSALIS γράφει και EMI RECORDS GROUP.Να προσθέσω επίσης ότι μπαίνοντας στο www.google.com και γράφοντας JOHN BARLEYCORN υπάρχουν πολλές σελίδες και πληροφορίες τόσο για την ιστορία του τραγουδιού όσο και του ίδιου του JOHN BARLEYCORN.Τώρα όσον αφορά την σύγκριση μεταξύ των δύο εκδόσεων από το ΜΟΥΣΙΚΟ ΚΟΥΤΙ σε μια πρώτη ανάγνωση που έκανα δεν βρήκα άλλες διαφορές.Μόλις ολοκληρώσω ολόκληρη την ακρόαση του, θα σας δώσω τις σχετικές πληροφορίες.Θωμά πιστεύω να μη βιάζεσαι να πάρεις το ΚΟΥΤΙ σου πίσω... ;):)

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What on earth are you talking about?

Well I've never heard Oso Varoun Ta Sidera sung in any other way or in any other culter other then that as a Greek "Kritiko Sytro". It's referenced as Dimotiko and settled in Crete from the Greek Face abum.

And if you've ever heard Nikos Xylouris sing it, you will hear it sung by him with a Cretan Dialect vs. the Laiko Dialect from a singer who's from Athens or omewhere else.

Christo, that is exactly the point: "Oso varoun" IS a Greek dimotiko, that is, a traditionnal song that's been around so long that nobody remembers the name of the person who wrote it. And it is still being sung, and yes I've heard Ksylouris' version, but you apparently have not heard the version of the Katsimixas brothers, with the huge electronic reverb' (you'd probably like it better than I do). So, yes it is not sung in another *culture* than the greek one, but it is sung in a modern orchestration. Like Barleycorn.

The point i was making is that "Barleycorn" belongs to the folk tradition of English music, as "Oso varoun" belongs to the folk tradition of Greek music. I was referring to musical styles, not language/pronunciation.

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barleycorn είναι το κριθάρι, οι κόκκοι απ'το κριθάρι.

Αλλά barleycorn είναι και μονάδα μέτρησης μήκους ίση με το 1/3 της ίντσας.

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[ but you apparently have not heard the version of the Katsimixas brothers, with the huge electronic reverb' (you'd probably like it better than I do).

Katsimihas sings this song with a Modern Sound?

No kidding really Pios Ap Ola

O Xaris - Oi O panos?

Any chance you can upload this song for us here

or better yet Geske send it to me as mp3 via email?

Now you have me Curious

Ohh Aman Aman

:)

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I doubt that Katsimixas could perform it better than Dalaras.

Remember Dalaras tried (and achieved in a way) to sing in English without a Greek accent!!!!!

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good idea! :mad:

I'm going to Athens next weekend, if I have the chance to speak to some one of Dalaras' team, or maybe himself, I'll ask!!

Sorry, no meeting!

But as I knew it could be difficult, I wrote a letter and explained our problem. Lets wait for the answer.

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good idea!   :)

I'm going to Athens next weekend, if I have the chance to speak to some one of Dalaras' team, or maybe himself, I'll ask!!

Sorry, no meeting!

But as I knew it could be difficult, I wrote a letter and explained our problem. Lets wait for the answer.

:huh:

Anna,

you hav eme confused

What on Earth are you going to ask Dalaras or from his team?

:confused:

How about getting an autograph pic and having him sign it for the club and post it here in the forrum.

Maybe that can be the new Front Page Picture in the club.

What do you think

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Christo, sorry for confusing

I have the song John Barleycorn on the Symmetexei CD of the Mousiko Kouti.

But in this song there is NO singing of Dalaras.

Now I learned from the discussion at this topic that there is a different version of the song John Barleycorn where Dalaras is singing!

And from the discussion we found out that it depends on which edition of the Mousiko Kouti you have! The 1st edition (the hand written numbered) of the Mousiko Kouti or the 2nd edition of the Mousiko Kouti (the ΕΠΑΝΕΚΔΟΣΗ version)

On the 1st edition there is NO singing of Dalaras with the song John Barleycorn and in the 2nd editon there is the singing of Dalaras with this song!!

And, as I think this is not ok :pity: I wrote and explained the 'problem'.

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όσον αφορά την σύγκριση μεταξύ των δύο εκδόσεων από το ΜΟΥΣΙΚΟ ΚΟΥΤΙ σε μια πρώτη ανάγνωση που έκανα δεν βρήκα άλλες διαφορές.Μόλις ολοκληρώσω ολόκληρη την ακρόαση του, θα σας δώσω τις σχετικές πληροφορίες.

Μόλις τέλειωσα λοιπόν την αναλυτική ακρόαση και των δύο εκδόσεων από το ΜΟΥΣΙΚΟ ΚΟΥΤΙ και ευτυχώς εκτός από το JOHN BARLEYCORN (το οποίο στο βιβλίο με τα τραγούδια αναγράφεται ως JOHN BARCLEYCORN)δεν βρήκα καμία άλλη διαφορά. :music::)

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Διάβαζα μία συνέντευξη του Γιώργου στην οποία αναφέρεται στο τραγούδι αυτό. Αν κατάλαβα καλά, δεν είναι ενθουσιασμένος με το αποτέλεσμα.

Το 1992 ανεβήκατε στη σκηνή μαζί με τον Ιαν ’ντερσον και τους Τζέθρο Ταλ και είπατε το "John Barleycorn". Αυτό δεν πρέπει να το χαρήκατε ιδιαίτερα

Ήταν μια πρόταση της εταιρείας. Μου την έκανε ο Μάνος Ξυδούς. Μου είπε:''Αφού κάνεις τόσα ανοίγματα, γιατί δεν κάνεις κι αυτό;''. Η αλήθεια είναι ότι εγώ το φοβήθηκα. Στον ’ντερσον φοβήθηκα το στιλ του. Δεν μπορούσα να το πιάσω εγώ. Αυτό το τραγούδι, καταρχήν, δεν το είχα φανταστεί έτσι. Το είχα φανταστεί σαν μια μπαλάντα με κιθάρες, λίγο σαν το ''California Dreaming'' ή το ''Hotel California''. Δεν το είχα φανταστεί τόσο ροκ, τόσο σκληρό. Ο ’ντερσον με την μπάντα του το είχαν πειράξει. Παρ' όλ' αυτά, βγήκε το τραγούδι, ξέρω ότι κάποιους ξάφνιασε, ήταν και σε κακή εποχή Το άκουσα πολύ αργότερα -ένα πράγμα που δεν πετυχαίνει το αφήνω, λέω κάναμε και μια άσχημη -και δεν το βρήκα για πέταμα. Έχει ένα εξωτικό μέσα -δεν είναι καλή η προφορά μου αλλά, ρε παιδί μου, να μη φάω εγώ τη λέζα. Εγώ το έκανα σαν πείραμα, αλλά ο ’ντερσον και η μπάντα του γιατί δε λέγανε όχι, μην το βγάλετε στο δίσκο. Αυτοί το αποφάσισαν, δεν το επέβαλα εγώ Αν το πω αυτό το τραγούδι με δυο μπουζούκια θα σ' αρέσει.

Γιατί δεν είπατε εσείς όχι;

Εντάξει, ρε παιδάκι μου, βρίσε με. Έβαλα το κεφάλι μου μέσα, πήρα το ρίσκο.

ΥΓ: Η συνέντευξη υπάρχει και στο site. Περιοδικό Έψιλον, 09.03.1997.

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Διάβαζα μία συνέντευξη του Γιώργου στην οποία αναφέρεται στο τραγούδι αυτό. Αν κατάλαβα καλά, δεν είναι ενθουσιασμένος με το αποτέλεσμα.

Eμένα μου θυμίζει τον ’γγελο (megali_mpougatsa) :razz:

Κι αυτός ποτέ δεν είναι τελείως ικανοποιημένος από το αποτέλεσμα των "εργασιών" του... :razz: Όλο κάτι βρίσκει να πει... :razz:

Κι όμως αυτά που φτιάχνει είναι πραγματικά "να γλύφεις τα δάχτυλά σου"... :razz::razz: :lol: :razz:

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Μου φαίνεται ότι ένα τέτοιο πείραμα πρέπει ν' ακούγεται πολύ διαφορετικό τώρα, από τότε που το έκαναν.

(Κατά τ'άλλα συμφωνώ με τον Θανάση όσον αφορά την τελειομανεία ορισμένων :pity: )

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To "Ruby Tuesday", το δεύτερο κομμάτι από τη συνεργασία του Γιώργου Νταλάρα με τους Jethro Tull το 1992,στο θεάτρο Acropol στις 14-5-1992, που ΔΕΝ μπήκε αργότερα στο δίσκο "Α little light music"...

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