Anna

Dalaras' news in English

483 posts in this topic

I remember the beginning of this community in 2001. All, yes that time really all, Greeks and Nongreeks wrote in English, as everybody wanted to exchange his thoughts, experiences, ideas, meanings and opinions about Dalaras.

These days are gone

Ok. today the participation of Greek members is much bigger than it was in the early days. And I dont think they cant write in English, they just dont care about if the international guests of this community will understand their writing.

I think Dalaras would be very proud about the internationality of this community with members from all over the world. It would be very sad to loose this international character and the participation of a lot of members just because of missing exchange as result of problems with the language.

This is why I open this topic, a topic meant for announcements in English, and I didn't find a better place...

I think this news we had already in English, anyway I write again:

They say the winterprogramme will start the 23rd of December, in Athens at Piraeusstr. On stage we will see Dalaras together with Antonis Remos and Andriana Babali. We know her from the CD Anemoptero from Stefanos Korkolis. She did the title song and those who have the CD will find her at page 17 of the booklet, shes the one with the dark hair.

New CD:

A new CD of Dalaras will be released around the 6th of December. Its called Sta tragoudia pou sou grafo. There are songs of different composers like Antonis Vardis, Takis Bourma, Lakis Papadopoulos and Stamos Semis. Semis we know him from the CD Stin Ellada kanei krio. I think you all remember the song Ta beggalika sou matia!

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Many thanks for this Anna.

I'm afraid my Greek is improving VERY slowly, and I am sure I will miss some important information. Particularly now that these days I don't have much time to read the Forum, let alone try and translate the posts here.

Thank you again.

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I agree EMPHATICALLY that those who CAN write both greek and english might make more of an effort to share info in both languages.

ALL those who can. Anna has taken the trouble to open this topic and I just stole some time to put an english "digest of the latest" in the Dalaras-Remos topic, but it doesn't always have to be the same people - does it?

I'd also like to remind the non-greeks that for a Greek, learning English is as hard as learning Greek is for you. Not «as hard as learning English is for you», but «as hard as learning Greek is for you». Complete with incomprehenible grammar and foreign alfabet, and with the added handicap of unpronounceable vowels to be written in a spelling that bears no relation to their sound.

So don't be too hard on Greeks who don't trust themselves to write English.

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First, let me explain. This topic is not meant as a complete translation of other topics.

My Greek is more than lousy. I cant give a correct translation of a whole article. Im just able to pick some words and try to get the meaning. And.its not my topic, anyone who knows Greek and English is welcomed to help out.

Well ,theres a new article today (30. November 2004)

at www.mad.tv/news/?id=17215

:) and as Geske is better and more quick with translations she did already a translation in English at the topic 'new CD'.

Anyway, and maybe to show how 'much' I'm able to give, have a look at my writing:

Now they say the new CD will come out the 8th of Dec.(well, maybe the 9th as this is Anna namesday :music:

There will be 14 new songs on it, music by Semsis and Vardis, other composer , especially Theofanous!! are not mentioned any more!! The lyrics are from old and new writers and Giorgos Kivelos is the boss of the whole thing.

There were already rumours about a new song of Theofanous which Dalaras and Remos will sing together. Well, now it looks as if this duet will not be included in this CD (thank God :razz:

Maybe they put it on Remos new CD or they fix an extra single with 5 songs of Theofanous and one of them will be the duet.

Another important sentence, concerning the winter programme with Remos!

Dalaras said:There will be no flower throwing in the new magazine :rolleyes:

...you see, my 'translation' is a bit more short :blush:

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Επειδή όταν είμασταν πιτσιρικάδες και οι γονείς μας μας "κυνηγούσαν" για να μάθουμε μια ξένη γλώσσα , ο νους μας ήταν στους δίσκους στις συναυλίες και στα γήπεδα (τότε), έχω γράψει και σε άλλο topic (LATIN) ότι αν γίνει απόπειρα μετάφρασης στα αγγλικά , τότε αυτοί που θα διαβάσουν το μεταφρασμένο κείμενο ίσως να ξεχάσουν και τ'αγγλικά που ξέρουν!...Νά'ναι καλά η GESKE που μετάφρασε το κείμενο τότε...Εγώ θα παρακαλούσα και θα πρότεινα όσοι μπορούν και έχουν τη δυνατότητα ,να μεταφράζουν και στα ελληνικά τα ξενόγλωσσα μηνύματα για να τα καταλαβαίνουμε και εμείς οι μη αγγλομαθείς...Ευχαριστώ εκ των προτέρων :)

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Illustration of what I said earlier about English being as hard to learn for the Greeks, as Greek for a native speaker of English or German or what have you.

When we were kids, our parents were after us to make us learn foreign languages, but our mind was on records and concerts in the football grounds (back then...), with the result, as I've written also in another topic (Latin), that if I tried to translate my post in English, those who read it might forget the English they do know! thanks Geske for translating it for me... As for me I would beg and propose that those who can, and have the ability, would translate the foreign-language posts so that we can understand them too who haven't mastered english... Thank you in advance.

I think all of us on this forum, as indeed every citizen in this Europe of ours, has to learn to live with the fact that «some of it» will be in a language we don't understand. Equally, I feel it is a good thing, something worthwhile, if those who can understand help those who can't.

Να το πω και στα ελληνικά: ολοί μας στο φόρουμ, όπως και ο κάθε πολίτης αυτής της Ευρώπης πού ζούμε, θα πρέπει να δέχεται ότι ένα μέρος «των πραγμάτων» θα είναι σε μια ξένη γλώσσα. Ταυτόχρονα, νιώθω πως αξίζει αυτοί που καταλαβαίνουν να βοηθούν αυτοι που δεν μπορούν.

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I remember the beginning of this community in 2001. All, yes that time really all, Greeks and Nongreeks wrote in English, as everybody wanted to exchange his thoughts, experiences, ideas, meanings and opinions about Dalaras.

These days are gone

Ok. today the participation of Greek members is much bigger than it was in the early days. And I dont think they cant write in English, they just dont care about if the international guests of this community will understand their writing.

I

Bravo Anna

I totally agree with you.

Not that I mind Greek or anything but it takes me a long time to decipher

all the words. I understand Greek but not quite as well in reading and comrehending it.

so the English is obviously alot faster for me.

;)

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There were already rumours about a new song of Theofanous which Dalaras and Remos will sing together. Well, now it looks as if this duet will not be included in this CD (thank God ;)

Maybe they put it on Remos new CD or they fix an extra single with 5 songs of Theofanous and one of them will be the duet.

Another important sentence, concerning the winter programme with Remos!

Dalaras said:There will be no flower throwing in the new magazine :pity:

:blush:

Anna why do you say that?

DIdn't they sound good together?

or is it you don't like the compositionsl Theofanous rights?

Personally I've never heard Dalaras sing any of his material or with Remos for that matter. So that alone should be a treat

Don't you think?

:(

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Christo, until we read the first rumours about Dalaras and Remos going together, I had no idea about Remos and no idea about Theofanous!

I have a lot of Greek music, but nothing from Theofanous. Remos, I found him on the CD tribute to Grigoris Bithikotsis and now on the CD Fos . Ok. His voice is not bad, my opinion.

To get more informations I went to Remos website: http://www.antonisremos.com

When you open it, you get already an impression, visual and acustic ;)

If you go to multimedia you get a chance to listen to songs of his CDs. I did with Mia Anapnoi, where the music is all from Theofanos.

I dont like at all this style of music.

and this is why I said Thank God the duet Dalaras / Remos not on Dalaras new CD.

Of course Im curious about their singing together. And youll get my comment, after I have listened to

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I remember the beginning of this community in 2001. All, yes that time really all, Greeks and Nongreeks wrote in English, as everybody wanted to exchange his thoughts, experiences, ideas, meanings and opinions about Dalaras.

These days are gone

Ok. today the participation of Greek members is much bigger than it was in the early days. And I dont think they cant write in English, they just dont care about if the international guests of this community will understand their writing.

:blink: :blink:

I understand and respect the wish of members who cannot read and write in Greek to get information and to participate in discussions.

But:

1. Dalaras is a Greek singer. Not only in the sense that he was born and lives in this country but also in the sense that usually he sings in this language. And that alone is reason enough that in a Forum that deals with him and his music (and that moreover was established by a Greek), everyone who wants to do so must have the possibilty to write in the Greek language whenever he/she likes without being criticized for that!! (And the same applies mutatis mutandis when Arabs make a Forum about Oum Koulthoum or Germans or Austrians about .. .Udo Juergens. ;) )

2. It was a member of this Forum that once has called English "the universal language of imperialism". And to my mind this member was completely right. To demand (directly or undirectly) from other people to use this language (here, in school, in everday life, wherever) means a support of the (cultural) imperialism. Whoever wants to use English (as I do too in some cases as an unpleasant necessity) should be free to use it. But there is not the slightest moral obligation to do it.

If someone is willing to translate Greek postings into English in order to help the members I mentioned in my first sentence, of course that is completely o.k. and surely very helpful.

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....Greek members [...] dont care about if the international guests of this community will understand their writing.

I disagree with you Anna.

As Michael mentioned above, "international" guests who listen to Dalaras and visit this site for sure are able to understand some Greek - otherwise they would have been unable to follow Dalaras' songs.

On the other hand, nobody forced non-Greek mambers to write in Greek! So "international" guests do write in English and - surprisingly! - they recieve replies in English too!!!

If there is something mentioned in Greek only and a non-Greek member wants to ask about, he/she can simply ask for it. Then you'll find many members more than keen to help.

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Panos, excuse me but you are making two mistakes of fact.

I know for 100% sure that it's perfectly possible to go totally out of your head about Dalaras without understanding a word he sings or having the slightest notion whether it's a song about crossed love or a jailed political prisonner. This was my own situation when I first came in, and if I had been a sligthly more normal person, it probably still would be.

I know that lots of people in here really don't understand any greek, and I remember very, very vividly how utterly discouraging it is to see a whole forum page in gibberish - in a writing whose very letters are meaningless. Which leads to your second mis-estimation: even for someone who knows a little bit of greek, there is so much on this forum that they can't decifer enough, quickly enough, to know which bits are worth asking help about.

Here is where solidarity comes in - member who can, helping members who can't.

I really DO wish there were someone willing and able to help with english-to-greek translations.

And Michael, if English is indeed "the language of universal imperialism", then I say, let's subvert it and put it to work. Look at latin! in its day, it certainly was that: "the language of universal imperialism", wasn't it? Well, long after roman imperialism was a thing of the past, the latin language remained a massively useful means of learning and communication. QED.

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And while I'm at it, this seems as good a place as any to go wildly off-topic and thank everyone in this forum who helped and encouraged me in the translations I do.

A few days ago I realized, quite suddenly, how much I have learned here. And in this case I don't mean the Greek I learned, I mean what I learned about how to do my job, which is translating things from one language into another.

Because Greek is from a different language family (not a close relation to English, as Dutch and even French are); and because it expresses a culture with a large quantity of concepts and ways of thinking that have no direct equivalent in the target language; and because the Greek texts I grappled with varied from reasonably easy to absolutely impossible... I learned more about «how to do my chosen work» practicing in here, unpaid, in a couple of years, than I learned practicing it for pay all the years before.

«Virtue is its own reward - if seldom the one you expect» (popular saying amended by me).

I have to insist though

it would be really good to have more people putting into the other language (a summary of) a post or group of posts

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As Michael mentioned above, "international" guests who listen to Dalaras and visit this site for sure are able to understand some Greek - otherwise they would have been unable to follow Dalaras' songs.

Sorry Pano, this must have been a misunderstanding. I did not say this. :pity: In this point I have to agree with Geske's statement "that it's perfectly possible to go totally out of your head about Dalaras without understanding a word he sings or having the slightest notion whether it's a song about crossed love or a jailed political prisonner". (And this does not apply only to Dalaras but to many other voices too: Greek voices, Arabic voices etc. ....)

But besides from this, I agree completely with your posting, Pano. ;)

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1. Dalaras is a Greek singer. Not only in the sense that he was born and lives in this country but also in the sense that usually he sings in this language. And that alone is reason enough that in a Forum that deals with him and his music (and that moreover was established by a Greek), everyone who wants to do so must have the possibilty to write in the Greek language whenever he/she likes without being criticized for that!!

When Anna opened this topic, I have to say that I was pleased that someone mentioned the subject. Having little time to read the Forum, it was easier for me to quickly scan the English posts to see if there was any interesting news. However, I do agree with Michael, and Geske, who have made some valid points. In a Greek forum, dedicated to a Greek singer, it should not be surprising that we see postings in Greek.

Being English, it embarrasses me very much when my fellow countrymen (and women) EXPECT other nationalities to speak English, even when they are visiting a foreign country. Of course not all English people do this, but I get extremely irritated when I witness such instances on holiday. It makes me cringe! :blush:

That is why I would never EXPECT our Greek, or German, or Polish or Dutch people to speak English, just to make it easier for me to understand.

I think the reason the subject has arisen is because there had always been a great deal of English in the Forum. When I first found it, the posts were predominantly English, probably because a lot of the contributors were non-Greeks. Our Dutch, German, Polish, (and some Greek) etc, members all appear to learn English as a second (or third/fourth!) language anyway and therefore it was simply EASIER to communicate this way. This was very good for all those who understood English and we became used to it.

But now that there are more and more Greek members (a good thing!), it is only natural that they want to post messages as quickly and easily as possible - as do the rest of us. And why shouldn't they, given that Dalaras is Greek, Nicolas is Greek, and the music is (mostly) Greek.

My Greek is nowhere near good enough to post messages in that language. I can understand some of the Greek postings, but it is time-consuming to do this and, as I can only read the Forum at work, it is not practical for me to get out my dictionary when I am supposed to be working :pity: I do worry sometimes that I am missing some important information, but as long as we have people like Geske (who's efforts to translate for us are heroic - thank you!!) and Anna, I'm sure we will get by.

Although it sometimes appears to me, when I visit Greece, that all Greek people speak English, I recognise that of course this is not the case. I appreciate the efforts of those Greek members who post in English ;) but do not EXPECT them to do so.

In the meantime, I will continue trying to learn Greek, but thank in advance all those who are able to translate - both from Greek to English and English to Greek!

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Panos, excuse me but you are making two mistakes of fact.

I know for 100% sure that it's perfectly possible to go totally out of your head about Dalaras without understanding a word he sings or having the slightest notion whether it's a song about crossed love or a jailed political prisonner.

I still disagree Geske.

It is not a mistake that I made.

It is difficult to listen to Dalaras AND visit this site if you haven't got a clue about Greek language....because you'll be simply a follower of other people's ideas.

Without knowing the language you'll like the songs but you won't be able to exceed the limits of Dalaras interpretation.

So if somebody thinks that a jargon-language-song is sufficient, this site will be useless for him.

A simple example (I don't know if I mentined it before):

My flat-mate likes very much Dalaras. He listened to the song "O Manwlis" and never thought of asking me about the meaning of the lyrics. Of course when one day I translated the (original) lyrics he was shocked!!!

I don't think the members of this forum will be satisfied by assumptions.

The second point-mistake (my mis-estimation) does not exist!!!!!!

You said yourself: Here is where solidarity comes in - member who can, helping members who can't.

I thought that this club is to discuss and explain to each other about our inquiries....To share our ideas and help others to join us.

Solidarity comes only from members who do not want to ask or participate.

Of course if the discussion is between two Greek members, I understand that up-to-date translation will be impossible. But a general idea might be sufficient.

You, yourself, have participated in this process by translating articles, messages and - most importantly - lyrics.

Others also try to do so.

Many Greek members try to send their messages in English.

What I want to make clear is: the "explanation-translation" process in this forum is not something optional. On the contrary it is part of our participation.

The fact that some members "can" and others "can not" is evident in many aspects of the forum, but we always overcome it by our team work.

That's for now. I'll continue later.

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Sorry Pano, this must have been a misunderstanding. I did not say this. :razz:

Excellent!

So it is my own opinion :) and I own its copyright :razz::razz:

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1. Geeske, thanks for your support :razz:

2. we have an announcement of a new Dalaras CD single (this single has nothing to do with the new album!). Go to the topic: CD single «Εμείς οι Ήρωες και οι Θεοί» youll find a translation from Michael. :razz:

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Geeske got from the radio (www.sfera.gr) one song Sta tragoudia pou sou grafo from the not yet released new CD and has it as mp3. She promised to send to everyone who will ask for.but please per messenger, not at the forum :)

Yesterday I found this link from a travel agency and got like this :)

have a look, although its in Greek:

http://www.con.gr/robin/IndexGR.htm

click on Διασκέδαση

They offer a trip to go to a Dalaras / Remos night the 16.01.2005

and its not the only offer, see http://www.kapatravel.gr/pages.asp?PageID=...=184&treeid=184

they go the 13.02.2005

Are they afraid the place will be empty??

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as some people have misunderstood, I'll rectify a little: please *ask* for the song by PM not in the forum, but keep in mind that i can not *send* it by PM, you need to give me an e-mail address.

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The December 2004 issue of the Greek magazine MEN offers an interview with Dalaras.

At TV appearances and interviews we have 2 topics.

- ΝΤΑΛΑΡΑΣ ΣΤΟ ΚΑΙΝΟΥΡΙΟ MEN, the Greek version with the photos

- Interview in MEN december 2004, were Geeske did a translation into English

The new CD Sta tragoudia pou sou grafo is out today!!! :D

Finally there are 15 songs, one together with Antonis Remos (# 9) and one with Giannis Vardis (# 11).

For those who cant wait, heres a link where you can buy via internet already today

http://www.musical.gr/cddetails.scr?gui_la...de=724356331525

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The new cd is really in circulation. The full lyrics have been posted in Greek by Makis. The good news, for those who can't read that, is that the cd booklet also contains english translations. The bad news is that they are bad translations.

The topic about the new cd has already run to three pages because of the controversy between those who think the songs (especially the lyrics) are not serious enough for Dalaras, and those who like them. There will be a lot more discussion about this but in the end, everyone will decide with their own ears (I hope).

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