Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Michael

Dalaras and his "fans"

24 posts in this topic

In another topic Geeske asked me how I would "use" real, decisive influence over Dalaras' next album (the songs he would choose and the way of their interpretation) in case that such influence were given to me.

From my answer Geeske drew the (obviously disapproving) conclusion that "it appears that you would USE that influence". And her central assumption was:

I want Dalaras to do what he wants,

you want Dalaras to do what you want

Well, of course you chose intentionally a quite provocative (you call it "blunt") way of expressing it (insinuating also that there would be automatically a terrific gap between HIS and MY choices).

Therefore I prefer to express it in the following way (and written as a general principle, as of course it does not apply only to the case of Dalaras):

I expect that Dalaras - as any other artist who shall be of interest for me - creates (or presents) a work which I like, which I am satisfied with.

For very simple reasons:

a)

That's exactly what usually every person does whenever he/she deals with cultural matters (listening to music, reading a book, going to the theatre, viewing a film etc.etc.): He expects that he will be satisfied by the artistic work presented to him (= the song and the way of singing, the book, the film etc.) or with other words: that he will like it.

:wow:

If I am an autonomous and mentally independent person (let's ignore the fact that we could philosophize about the question in which degree such independence is possible) it will be an inner decision OF MYSELF to feel (and to say): "This thing I like, that thing I dislike, perhaps about a third thing I am indifferent as it does not interest me at all."

Combining a) + :wow: the logical consequence is the principle expressed above.

To me (until I entered this club) that was something completely clear and obvious, the most natural thing on the world (practiced by all people who listen to music, read books, watch films etc.) And completely harmless too: Firstly as we (= "common" listeners, readers etc.) anyway only "phantasize" (without having any real possibility to get in contact with "our" artist), and secondly as we say "we want ...", "we expect ..." and - in best of the cases - we would "influence" (+ CONVINCE !! ) (him), but not "impose" anything to the artist (which of course would neither be possible nor desirable).

And until now I can only imagine two groops of people who declare that they deny the above principle:

- liars

- people who are (whatever may be the reason) NOT autonomous and NOT mentally free / NOT independent in their thinking. (Please don't stick to these terms, maybe there are better ones. I assume it is clear what I mean.)

So what did I find (to my great surprise) here in the Club? Some supporters ("fans", whatever) of Dalaras who say things like "I want Dalaras to do what he wants" (Geeske, I mention your words as they were the most recent ones; of course I have read similar statements also from others. I remember a comment from another person [in a posting written some months ago] which was something like: "Dalaras will always show us the right way" etc.etc.). And this approaches indeed for me already "religious" dimensions.

First of all I must make clear that I am absolutely sure that NO ONE here in the Club (expressing suchs views) belongs to the group of the liars. I have no doubt that you are indeed convinced of what you say.

Geeske, as far as I "know" you (by your postings), I really do not have in mind to count you to the group of the people who did nothing else than insult me for uttering a different opinion. Already the contents and the extremly low level of their postings show me that they are obviously unable to be autonomous and mentally free. (And anyway, this posting is of course not written in order to explain anything to THEM.) But I do not understand YOUR case, Geeske. On the one hand you think so clear and really independent (for example your remark about your [former?] atheistic way of thinking, your critics on the concept of hysteria etc.etc.) and on the other hand you say "I want Dalaras to do what he wants". And in case that YOU would have the possibility for "real, decisive influence over Dalaras' next album" you obviously would say to him: "No, dear Mr. Dalaras, I have no own opinion and no own wishes to express. For me counts only what YOU like to do." (I know: you did not write this, but for me it would be the logical consequence of your disapproving assumption that I [Michael] would actually use that influence.)

Do not forget that every listener (reader etc.) is a type of partner of his favourite artist(s). Of course you will admire the abilities of the artist (his voice, his music, his style of writing a book etc.etc.), but do not forget that you are the recipient of the artist's work. It is performed FOR YOU (and only besides: the artist is paid from you for this performance). You have YOUR OWN taste, YOUR OWN abilities. Use them whenever you can! On the one hand for deciding if you are satisfied by a work (already presented by the artist) and on the other hand to have wishes (in the form of dreams, ideas, suggestions and also of using influence [if possible]) concerning future works of the artist.

I do not think that it is bad that you are "not rational about Dalaras" (as you admit). Quite the contrary: To my mind it is not at all desirable to deal with favourite artists and their work only on a rational basis. And I also find it completely o.k. when for example Micki writes about herself (concerning Dalaras etc.): "This is her only passion that she holds on to, ...". And I was very impressed by SPQR's (Niki's) following statement, where she writes about herself (concerning her experiences with listening to Dalaras) for example the following: "Her life has a meaning, a passion." I really can understand it and I am happy to see that people can feel so (and express it). And I also know that of course all these things (= not to be [completely] rational, to have a passion etc.) lead to a certain loss of (emotional) autonomy and mentally freedom / independent thinking. But under no circumstances it should mean that - as far as referring to the subject of your passion - you loose them completely (or almost completely), so that you are no longer following your own ideas, tastes, preferences etc., but automatically the ideas, tastes, preferences of your favourite singer (author, composer, ... whatever).

(As I mentioned above, of course this would apply to the aggressive supporters of Dalaras here in the Club too [even in a higher degree!] but it is completely useless to deal with such people.)

Concerning myself (as I wrote in another topic), unlike Micki I cannot longer hold on to my passion for Dalaras "without any doubt, without any effort". On the one side I regret it but on the other side it is in a certain way a positive experience as it proves me: I am (and I remain to be) my own master - Dalaras did not "conquer" or "replace" my own personality. (Something that NO ONE should do.)

And finally: Would you answer a question to me?:

Your principle to say

"I want Dalaras to do what he wants,"

is it a general one (that you apply to ALL artists you admire) or is it a "special" principle only for the case of Dalaras?  

I would have to make some additional remarks - perhaps later.

Your question concerning Dalaras' experiments I will answer in another topic at another time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you know why I want Dalaras to do what HE wants to do?

Sting sings the answer:

If you love somebody, set them free.

(Though I don't know how to do it.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael,

What you are saying about the reasons a) and :wow: why you expect that Dalaras creates work that you 'd like is OK. noone disagrees with wanting a result that would satisfy you and with having the freedom and independance to judge that for yourself. But I don't think that the subject here is the above, to be free to choose what you like, etc...

 I believe that those who have musical knowledges and knowledge of difference music kinds, if they were given the chance to express to Dalaras their preferences, they would do it. But they would do it in a form of a suggestion, (as Micki for example said it). However the question was different. It was about having REAL DESISIVE power over him. The way I understand this (Geeske correct me if I'm wrong) is to have so much power and influence over him, so that whatever you would suggest or say to him, he would "have" to follow it.

 

 In this case, I wouldn't say anything, because I would want to see what he really likes, I would like to see him experimenting on different music styles, combining things, folllowing his own taste. And here is where freedom comes in. I want to be free to choose what I like and what not, but I also want him to be free to create what he wants. I believe that Dalaras is already restricted. He has implied that but he didn't explain it. Maybe he meant from his company, or even from us, from what we expect him to do... or ...I don't know. That makes me sad. I want him to be free, and you see that he 's not as free as he would like, as free as I would like him to be. Therefore even if I knew a lot about music and had no real power on him, I would still be very careful and hesitant to make any suggestions. I'd rather have a talk where he would tell me about what he likes and what he wants to do (even if these were only dreams and he couldn't realise them for various reasons) that me telling him what I like and what I want. But this doen't mean that I have no personal opinion, that I can't be critical.  

 You said that Dalaras as every other performer performs for US, the listeners, and that's what he's paid for. Though I can't deny the latest part, I have to admit that my greatest joy would be if he could come on stage (or enter the recording room) having cleared his mind from all kinds of preasures, coming from all kinds of places and persons, in order to play what HE likes, whay HE wants! Simply,I would love it if he could perform for HIMSELF instead for US.

  I keep remembering the insident Sarantiis had once mentioned. Dalaras on stage, before the concert, with a guitar, testing it, relaxed, playing and singing what he liked and wanted. That's what I want. Geeske is right. As Sting has sang: "If you love somebody set them free".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Michael!

First of all, I found it tiring to read from the screen such a long message, try to be shorter!

I dont agree with this straight opinion 'I want Dalaras to do what he wants' but this doesnt mean that you can make conclusions about Geeske own personality and independence. It is very aggresive to make such co0nclusions only because of a phrase that Geeske mentioned.

Maybe, as SPQR said, it could be a free thought or a wish that Geeske might have, to watch Dalaras being himself.

However Michael I can suggest you to visit my topic 'Ideas for new cd' where I give you the oportunity to be independent, express your own opinion and give ideas for a new cd you would wish Ntalaras to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Nikos Dalarovios,

first of all I am sorry that it was tiring for you to read my message. Anyway I hope you will understand that I cannot make dependent the length of my messages of the fact that someone has problems to read it on the screen. In similar cases I prefer to print the messages in order to read them on paper. (But of course I know that there does not always exist a possibilty to print.)

Concerning Geeske, it is surely very friendly of you that you try to speak for her. But as far as I know Geeske (by her postings), she can do this perfectly well by herself. Whenever she dislikes something, she is welcome to tell it to me and I am sure that she and I will find a constructive way to discuss it (either within the topic, either private by e-mail or messenger). Please understand that I prefer to debate such matters with herself and not with third persons. But of course I am willing to discuss also with YOU whenever you have to tell me something concerning my general views expressed in my above posting.

Finally I thank you for the possibility to write my suggestions in your topic. But by reading my above posting you will have seen that it was not my aim to make such concrete suggestions but to deal with the matter from a more general point of view. Therefore I regarded it as useful to open a new topic. Whenever I plan to make some concrete suggestions, of course I will do it with pleasure within the topic mentioned by you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael, I promised you an answer but it'll have to wait, I'm afraid. Sorry. I've had a hard day.

SPQR has made the main point, anyway. Thank you, Niki.

Just one thing.

If you love somebody, set them free. Or at least leave them free. Or at least, try!

If you don't, you'll never be free yourself, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And I also know that of course all these things (= not to be [completely] rational, to have a passion etc.) lead to a certain loss of (emotional) autonomy and mentally freedom / independent thinking. But under no circumstances it should mean that - as far as referring to the subject of your passion - you loose them completely (or almost completely), so that you are no longer following your own ideas, tastes, preferences etc., but automatically the ideas, tastes, preferences of your favourite singer (author, composer, ... whatever).

My emotions and esp. this passion I feel for Greece and Dalaras' music just happened to me. I think emotions always do (they just happen, you cannot order them to be there). It is just the way you live with it, is what makes somebody unique.

Further I don't feel it is my place to comment on any other thing about the music he brings because I'm quite ignorant about the backgrounds (discovering though). I just enjoy the results (as also a good book will do or movie with my 'favourite' actor, or whatever I find joy in). This working girl is serious enough as it is.

Micki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a few minutes ago I heard for the first time the CD of a certain Greek singer who as far as I know is quite popular but nevertheless up to now I did not hear any of his songs. (I do not like to say in public whom I mean.) Of the about 12 titles on this CD nine or ten are terrible or in the best case completely unimportant for me. I think they represent exactly the sort of Greek music which some of my opponents here in the Club called "garbage" etc. I for myself do not use such terms - but in essence here I would agree even with my opponents (!! ): For me this is no good music too. BUT:

On this CD are also two songs which conquered my ear and my heart from the first moment I heard them:

1. One which sounds under some aspects very "arabic" / "oriental" (although music and lyrics are written by Greeks) - for me one of the most "extreme" examples for (let's say) "pseudo-oriental" Greek songs (mixed with some "modern pop-elements") I have ever heard (and I would say that it is not a "laiko" song in the sense as I described it in another posting).

2. The second one completely different: a characteristic Greek "laiko" with one of the most wonderful melodies I have heard during the last months (or longer), a classical "zeibekiko" of the more slow and quiet type. Also a phantastic instrumentation and plain but very human lyrics. A song with enormous beauty! (Despite of the fact that the voice of the singer has nothing special for me.)

In order do avoid to provoke a discussion about musical "experiments" etc. in this topic too (I have in mind to open another one for it) I will restrict to the second song:

Once more I saw how wonderful it is to follow simply my own musical instinct: The singer (and his repertoire) has definitely no good image among people who prefer music "with quality" and listening to the major part of the CD I can understand it. - But I did not care about all this. I listened and I felt that this song (and the second one) was a wonderful experience for me.

And now I will return to Geeske and SPQR (Niki):

For example the following would be for me a probable way of trying to "influence" Dalaras (in case that I had the possibility to be in contact with him): I would like to play to him this song on the CD, to listen to it together with him, to see how he reacts when hearing it and to ask him afterwards if he liked this song. I would him (or he would tell me by himself) about the reasons why he thinks "yes" or "no". So there would start a discussion and in case that he says that he does not like the song I would try to explain him what this songs means for ME, where I see its qualities and how even more wonderful it would be to hear it from HIS voice. (And not only this one but more songs of this type on a CD.) So I would try to convince him.

Niki, I hope with this concrete example I was able to illustrate what I could imagine when speaking about "decisive influence": In essence it means: To have the possibility to be with Dalaras in so good contact that I can "present" him my musical taste and my wishes / expectations and to find him ready to discuss with me about all this.

You write:

However the question was different. It was about having REAL DESISIVE power over him. The way I understand this (Geeske correct me if I'm wrong) is to have so much power and influence over him, so that whatever you would suggest or say to him, he would "have" to follow it.

That would be a very extreme interpretation of "influence" (insinuating moreover that I would be a person who would like to have power over Dalaras or people in general). I think I could clarify that for me " to influence" means something different.

Niki, concerning the other parts of your posting I widely agree with you. For me the real situation for Dalaras (as for every other famous and successful singer of contemporary music) seems to be somewhere between the two aspects mentioned by you:

- On the one hand I think Dalaras had (and has) a lot of freedom to show us what he REALLY likes by producing his CDs and giving his concerts. (Wouldn't this fit to what some fanatics and one personal friend of Dalaras tell us here in the Club all the time? That Dalaras only plays the music he is fully convinced of, that he makes all the decisions for his choices by himself etc.etc.?)

- But on the other hand of course I believe as you that for Dalaras exist various restrictions too. (It is important that you referred to this point and it would be worth to discuss it more in detail as an own topic. [And I congratulate you that you had the courage to mention this issue here in the Club.])

Anyway, Niki, do not forget that Geeske did not have in mind the possibility to influence Dalaras when hearing him playing and singing for example on stage before a concert or at some private meeting with him. (In such moments of course no one would deny to listen to him in order to utter one's own suggestions or wishes!! ) Geeske wrote about "decisive influence over Dalaras' next album". That is what I referred to.

Finally, concerning your statement:

He [= Dalaras] has implied that [= to be restricted] but he didn't explain it. Maybe he meant from his company, or even from us, from what we expect him to do... or ...I don't know. That makes me sad. I want him to be free, and you see that he 's not as free as he would like, as free as I would like him to be.

Don't be so pessimistic, Niki. What you write reminds me of a song, written by Takis Soukas and Nikos Loukas, referring to the Greek singer Kazantzidis (in the middle of the 80ies):

"Βαριά η θλίψη με πικραίνει με νόμους που φτιαξαν ληστές,

είμαι τ αηδόνι που πεθαίνει φυλακισμένο μες στο χτες.

Sorrow laying heavy on me makes me bitter with laws made by robbers,

I am the nightingale which dies, imprisoned within yesterday."

I do not think that this (or something similar) is Dalaras' situation. He looks most of the time quite happy  :wow:.

Concerning Micki's posting:

All you write I find completely o.k. And of course I agree with you that for someone who is more a "beginner" concerning a certain music (or whatever), it will be difficult (or even impossible) to compare with alternatives or to utter certain preferences. But this ability will steadily increase by the time  :wow:.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael, I just want to add few comments...

That would be a very extreme interpretation of "influence" (insinuating moreover that I would be a person who would like to have power over Dalaras or people in general). I think I could clarify that for me " to influence" means something different.

Influence alone yes has a different meaning, but here the emphasis was on DESISIVE influense.

 Concerning the fact that Dalaras has restrictions and he is subjected to some kind of pressure, yes I said this, but I never said that he doesn't believe in what he finally decides to do.

Anyway, Niki, do not forget that Geeske did not have in mind the possibility to influence Dalaras when hearing him playing and singing for example on stage before a concert or at some private meeting with him.

 Certainly, she didn't mean that, but I mentioned it only to indicate how much I liked him to be like that always.  (which doesn't mean that I don't like him the way I see him on concerts, etc...) It's not so the private meeting but the fact that he did what he did only for himself, and that's a moment when there is a kind of "apokalypsis" that takes place in front of your eyes. It's what he likes most, but that doesn't mean that on stage he doesn't like what he playes. Anyway, I don't know how to explain it. I think I've only have confused you more...

"Βαριά η θλίψη με πικραίνει με νόμους που φτιαξαν ληστές,

είμαι τ αηδόνι που πεθαίνει φυλακισμένο μες στο χτες.[...]I do not think that this (or something similar) is Dalaras' situation. He looks most of the time quite happy.

I never said or implied something like that...  :confused: Dalaras didn't complain about it, and all I said is that if it's true it makes me sad. Dalaras might be subjected to preasures but in the end he has a way to avoid things he doen't want to do. :music:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This message refers to Hristaki:

Hristaki, in another topic (in the thread "Members") I requested from you to explain me what you meant with a certain sentence in one of your above postings yesterday. You reacted to my demand in your usual impudent and ridiculous way but you did not answer my question. So I have to repeat it here again:

What did you mean by writing about me:

It's people like you...that John Lennon...should have been warned about!!!!!!!!

Hristaki    :music:

I told you that my knowledge about John Lennon is restricted to the fact that he was a member of the Beatles and that he was killed by a young man.

And as you made your statement in public I expect from you to declare in public why exactly John Lennon should have been warned about people like me - and warned of which danger??

And I advise you to be very careful with your answer as all the people that I showed your statement ("neutral" people - not belonging to the Club and not even knowing Dalaras) interpreted your words in the same way!

Of course I cannot force you to explain anything. But in case you will not do it, I assure you that my question will appear again and again whenever you write any posting within here.

You have gone too far now with your behaviour!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This topic reminds me of Surrealist movie I saw once (made in France in 1921 or thereabouts).

Scene: group of people sitting at a cafe table having a highly serious discussion (panama hats; moustaches like μαγγες). No sound, it's when movies were not talkies yet. But they're arguing heatedly, you can see. Suddenly a couple of them get up, draw rapiers, pull off their striped blazers to reveal black tights and start fencing.

Then suddenly these two guys on gigantic warhorses, all in armour, looking they've been canned, barge into the picture, swinging maces and morning-stars and other spiky medieval weapons. They charge right trough the fencers, the cafe table, and the cafe itself and disappear.

The others sit down again at the broken table, the fencers go 'en garde' as if nothing had happened. A bit later you see the horses coming back in the distance...

Then of course the whole things jumps to something else, it is, after all, surrealism.

I'm trying to remember the movie title for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, where were we?

Niki - you understood exactly what I meant by "decisive influence" and answered as I would have.

We know that Dalaras is not entirely free in his choices, no human being is, but we also know that is a lot more free than most other artists (or human beings). To be free is a choice one makes, or rather a choice one has to make over and over again; and it is a responsability; and a pain in the asss; and the one quality that allows everything else to have value...

Michael - you took "decisive influence" as "convince", which is misinterpretation. And you state/defend with many words your right to like and dislike different aspects of Dalaras' or any artist's work - which is I would not dream of denying.  

I don't intend to let you off the hook though. 'Ασε με πάλι να ρωτώ...

I have no quarrel with the fact that you do no like the result of some of Dalaras' experiments. What makes me nervous is the fact that you think they should not have taken place.

1) Do you really think Dalaras was _wrong_ (artistically, personally, ethically) to undertake these experiments?

2) If so: why?

Because you, Michael, do not like the result?

Because he undertook them with wrong motives, wrong ambitions?

Because of some harm they did?

Because... because... well, ένα μεγάλο γιατί!

Please do understand: I am trying to find out what we think; no more, no less.

Maybe you don't want to tell - OK. Maybe you don't want to know - at your own risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all I have to react to Hristaki's last posting:

Hristaki, of course you need not explain anything. So everyone can see that in addition to all your other bad and unpleasant attributes you are also a big ######.

Concerning Geeske's posting:

Michael - you took "decisive influence" as "convince", which is misinterpretation.

O.k. - in order to avoid a new philosophical and abstract discussion, let's regard it as an misinterpretation.

And you state/defend with many words your right to like and dislike different aspects of Dalaras' or any artist's work - which is I would not dream of denying.  

Of course not YOU, Geeske - but some other "nice" members of this Club. I would like to remind you statements like this:

What I accuse him for is the fact that he [= Michael] expresses his ideas in an insolent way as he doesn't have the knowledge which is required for such conversations. Maybe he cant even feel what good Greek Music is.

I regret that no other people say clearly that such an attitude is unacceptable. Maybe that therefore I try to "justify" some principles (as e.g. everyone's right to criticize an artist respectively his work) more than necessary.  

There is only a single other Forum where I met such aggressive and intolerant people like 5 or 6 members here in the Club: A Forum also dealing with (greek) music,  specialized on discussions about the rebetiko song. And all of them (also about 5 or 6 persons) are massive OPPONENTS towards Dalaras !!  :razz: That means that in this other Forum you are attacked in exactly the same way as here whenever you say something in favour of Dalaras (or any other Greek artist they also dislike). Exactly the same phenomenon on both sides. Isn't that paradox?

Concerning your question(s) about my attitude towards Dalaras' experiments: As I have written above, I plan(ned) to write about it in an own topic. In the meantime I began to doubt if it makes sense to write in this Club ANYTHING that has (in some way) "ideological" character. The reactions are almost exclusively insults, sarcasm and hatred, coming always from certain well-known persons. Not that I feel personally hurt because of these reactions. Not at all. (In a certain way the behaviour of these people even amuses me.) But it is not worth the time of sitting down for one or two or three hours in order to prepare a serious and substantial text if there comes (almost) no constructive feedback from anyone. (Whatever the reasons for this silence may be. There are some positive reactions to my postings - but it seems to me characteristic for the crude and intolerant atmosphere in the Club that they do not happen in public but they reach me via messenger respectively e-mail.)

It simply depends on my mood if I will decide to answer your questions here in the Club. It is good to see that you are obviously really interested in getting the answers and I am thankful for this interest by your side. So maybe that I will prepare something and send it to you by e-mail. I will think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look, Michael, I'm afraid you DO rub people the wrong way. And like cats, people will scratch when you do that. It's probably not so much your opinions, as your way of expressing them. And normally, it should get you no worse than a scratch or two. I know you don't mind that, you enjoy an argument. So do I.

So? So! I'm going to be blunt one more time.

The only thing really wrong here is the allergic reaction that has taken place between Michael and Hristaki, months ago, and which keeps exploding again and again. And  it showers nonsense all over the forum. It is VERY BORING and very annoying for the rest of us.

As soon as you are near each other, you start "sneezing" again, and soon others sneeze too, until one can't hear oneself think.

Are you going to stop this, or not? So long as each of you puts the responsability upon the other, it will go on.

As soon as one of you decides that it stops here, it stops.

The responsibility is not with the other, but with YOU.

Now Hristaki can call me names, and Michael can make a three-page post about it, and you can both choose not to believe me: go on!

YAWN

As soon as one of you decides that it stops here, it stops.

The responsibility is not with the other, but with YOU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Geeske, I will not say a single word concerning your posting.

I only see that in the Club takes place also censorship as in my last posting the word I used as one of the characteristics of Hristaki is replaced by "####".

But perhaps the censor allows me to inform the visitors of the Club that I did not utter any abuse. It was simply the official word in the english language for a person who does not have courage.

By the way, I fully agree with the philosophy that in certain cases it is justified to remove words, phrases etc.

But that a member can compare me to the murderer of John Lennon WITHOUT any public word of protest from the censor and WITHOUT removal of the slanderous phrase, whereas I am not allowed to call this member (by using the offical term) a person that does not have courage - well that tells me a lot about the attitude of the censor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The censor

has no attitude

The censor

is a stoopid piece of Bible-belt american software built into the server that hosts the site.

All it does is replace some words it does not like with ##. You fool it by misspelling them: like, #### gets censored, but dammn does not.

Dammmmmmmm all censors!!! To hellllll with them!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geeske, if I understood your statement right, the "censor" is not a person but a software that deletes automatically certain words on which it is programmated.

Maybe you are right. Let's try, by writing the "censored" sentence again by misspelling the "bad" word:

"Hristaki, of course you need not explain anything. So everyone can see that in addition to all your other bad and unpleasant attributes you are also a big cowward."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate having to say this, but the whole situation is too disappointing. And as I'm on a bad mood, you people are starting to irritating me... :razz:

 I beg you for the first and last time to end this ###### thing now. Let's just forget it. Or if you can't do so, ignore one another. Or if you insist, then use your message servise. :razz:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Niki, try to stay cool.

Your suggestion to use the messenger is no satisfying solution for me. For the following reason: If someone attacks me in public I think that it must be possible for me to defend me in public too.

And just an advice (which applies to Geeske too): Don't concentrate only on Hristaki. You know very well that there are some other members too who are part of the same conflict. The only difference is that Hristaki is more active than the others. So to my mind the problem would not be solved at all even if there could be achieved something like a provisorial "peace" only between Hristaki and me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Niki is right. Michael, If you want to discuss something you can do it in private.

You 've ruined the nice and warm feeling of this club.

I can't believe that this thread (dalaras and his "fans") really exists. We need no opposition here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Astron, once more you show your intolerant attitude by writing:

We need no opposition here.

Aren't you ashamed for such a sentence? And do you forget that you say it as the citizen of the country which is regarded the birthplace of democracy?

But as I know that whatever I say with my own words will be rejected, I will use (once more) sentences written by Nikos Dimou (a Greek like you and a person I think about very often during the last weeks when I see what is going on here in the Club):

Η αμφιβολία δεν δολοφόνησε ποτέ, κανέναν. Η πίστη όμως ... Πόσες Νύχτες (και Μέρες) του Αγίου Βαρθολομαίου, στην ιστορία των ανθρώπων ...

Όταν γίνονται απόλυτες οι ιδέες είναι ο μεγαλύτερος εχθρός της ζωής. Αλλά όχι μόνο της ζωής. Ακόμα και της γνώσης, της εμπειρίας, της απόλαυσης.

The doubt never killed anyone. But the faith ... How many Saint Bartholomew's Nights (and Days) in the history of mankind ...

When the ideas become absolute they are the biggest enemy of life. But not only of life. Also of knowledge, of experience, of enjoyment.

And try to imagine that perhaps even Dalaras himself would think in a similar way, concerning listeners with different points of view about his music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0