Andonis

Η άσφαλτος που τρέχει

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A cut from previous Cds???? Do you mean a kind of plagiarism?

The CD had nothing that sounded familiar (except To Palto - pardon me, but to tragoudi auto mou ka8etai sto stomaxi :) )

The rest of the songs had their own musical identity.

The fact that he used some known songs (Mad about you - HastaSiempre etc) made the CD double.... but even without these songs he could have created a musical hit...

H Asfaltos pou trexei, itself is enogh to make THE best seller.

Please specify your point of view... the discussion is becoming interesting :D

:D

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The cover would be more "westernized" if with the leather jacket he is wearing, he had long hair :) He would look like a Heavy Metal singer :)

I think, Natalie, that you found the reason I like this CD...Actually I didn't know the exact reason - in terms - but now I know it.

It is multicultural!

Songs from east to west (Krummena kleidia) to more west (Me8usmenh Barka) to more and more (Trelos gia sena) to south (Hasta Siempre)...

Plus all the pure Greek tunes wich made an Odyssey from Eastern-oriental tunes (e.g. Allo 8a pei ais8anomai) to fast western ones (Paris), with many variations among them....

It contains many things...That's why many of his "enemies" said that the album has not a specific style...

But why don't they look to the other side: the album is loved by everyone!

We live in the 21st century! Were they expecting a CD with 24 songs of the same rhythm or type?

Look at the Tsitsanis (3 cd) and Markos (2 cd) detications.

2 CDs with masterpieces that took a whole life for their creators to compose the songs!

H Asfaltos, proved - once moe- that D is able to run through time, cultures, nations, languages...without losing his own identity!

That's why Greek emigrants like him... :music:

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I listened to this album today and felt kind of nostalgic about it: it was the 1st album I ordered through the net when I joined the forum, almost a year ago (under another name, in case the new members find it strange). And, though it's not my favourite, the emotions came back strongly, I remember how I felt listening to Palios Stratiotis and how excited I was by being a part of this forum. I felt Saudade and though I've been more out than in (the forum), I still enjoy very much being a part of it. :)

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Speaking of O palios stratiwths... I can proudly say that I liked the video clip (which means that I watched it too :) ).

This song touched many people.

I have a friend who doesn't like D - in other words: he hates him - but, I listened to him singing : den sou uposxomai zwh etc...

Tell me Celeste...Does Sodade have the same meaning with Saudade - the kind of feeling nostalgia or missing something or somebody?

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Tell me Celeste...Does Sodade have the same meaning with Saudade - the kind of feeling nostalgia or missing something or somebody?

Yes, Panos, it does. :):):music:

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I think, Natalie, that you found the reason I like this CD...Actually I didn't know the exact reason - in terms - but now I know it.

It is multicultural!

Songs from east to west (Krummena kleidia) to more west (Me8usmenh Barka) to more and more (Trelos gia sena) to south (Hasta Siempre)...

Plus all the pure  Greek tunes wich made an Odyssey from Eastern-oriental tunes (e.g. Allo 8a pei ais8anomai) to fast western ones (Paris), with many variations among them....

It  contains many things...

Panos, I agree with your description of certain facts but my opinion about them is different:

Yes, Dalaras' CD ("H asfaltos pou trehei") can be called "multicultural". It can be characterized with expressions like "world-music", "cross-over" and I do not know which other terms exist to describe this tendency in music. It has become a fashion during the last (5-10?) years. And - as you write - we live in the 21st century; people (in Greece, in Central and Western Europe, wherever) changed and their taste changed too:

Obviously bored by the routine of their lifes and bored by their own (cultural) identity, people started to look for something that has an "exotic" touch: A little bit orient, a little bit Latin America, a little bit Africa etc.etc. But never too much of these elements because this would annoy ears and brains. The shallow western atmosphere must dominate. From all a little bit but nothing substantial.

Let's take as example the situation with Greek music:

How many (non-Greek) people in Western Europe formerly listened to Greek music (with the exception of some "touristic" hits)? A very, very small minority. Since which time you can find a lot of Greek CDs in the shelves of western CD stores? Since which time Alexiou or Dalaras (and perhaps some others) are well-known names even for a certain number of non-Greek people? Obviously since their change from (authentic) Greek repertoire to "multicultural" repertoire.

On the other hand, Greeks themselves during the last years lost more or less completely the interest in their own musical identity (with the exception of the permanent repeating of some "evergreens") and "discovered" either the "exotic" sounds (see the influence of latin american music) or the "western" sounds (see for example the inevitable rock or pop elements in almost every Greek song).

So Dalaras' CD (perhaps with the exception of 3 or 4 songs) serves exactly these needs of the Greek and the foreign audience. I fear that today this is the only way to stay on top in the own country and to reach (to a certain degree) an international audience. From this point of view the conception of a production like "H asfaltos pou trexei" is quite logical. But "logical" (= complying with the needs of the market) does not mean automatically "good". Especially not today.

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I know what you mean, Michael. There isn't anything wrong with drawing influences from other cultures.

Then again, I have found that in becoming a lover of "authentic" Greek music I have almost entirely shut myself off from American music. True, I'm not missing all that much (of what is popular), but there are millions of good songs (perhaps lesser known) that I miss the opportunity to hear each day. My English teacher makes this clear by bringing in examples of great folk music and such for class.

I essentially feel more Greek than American. That really isn't good since I don't speak Greek and am thus incapable of being in full communion with the heritage I love. Furthermore, there is an identity and obligation with and to the United States that I feel I unable to meet, and this fills me with a feeling of--for lack of a better word (and also because it seems to fit so well)--being in xenitia.

I am a young person without a country, stuck between homes and time periods. Will I find many friends with the same passion I have for the music of dead men in another nation? The best I can hope for tends to be that they have "an appreciation"--that they don't mind my constant singing of words neither of us understands. For a person like me there is little hope of being completely united with someone when so powerful a passion remains unmatched.

Multiculturalism, however, helps to bridge the gap. It is bittersweet, but so are most good stories.

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There is another way of looking at a mixed cultural identity.

It's easier to illustrate with an example. Your genetic identity is half from your father and half from your mother; at some point in our life most of us say "I am more like my dad", or "I look exactly like my mother", but we all know that our genes are exactly one quarter from each of our grand-parents, and we know that having some from each and not all from any none is exactly what makes us unique.

You can look at your cultural identity in the same way: not a pure substance, (like a single chemical element, say carbon) but a composite (like a molecule, say benzine or sugar - both of whom are mostly carbon, but...!). It's very useful to know what the elements of your identity are, but it's if you to take them apart, you break up the molecule and end up with... nothing much.

I've noticed that for people of mixed descent, it's the "foreign" part that tends to more visible; that is, the greek-american living in the US will be constantly reminded of his greekness, but if he returns to Greece to live he will be constantly reminded of his americanity.

There are basically 2 ways of coping with this.

One is to assert one component at the expense of all the others; in the best case it's self-mutilation, in the worst it leads to ethnic cleansing.

The other is to be conscious of the composite-ness and to get as much enrichment out of it as you can, as a compensation for the aches&pains.

I'll take my own example: a Dutch person having grown up in Switzerland, I fled, litteraly, like escaping from prison, to Holland to university as soon as I could, but I never denied that I have a Swiss component to my self, and that it's got its good sides. I have a lot of other components, being a very mixed&motley sort of being.... including a small greek component - that is a com-ple-te-ly different thing that saying "i am becoming greek" - I am not, never will, can not and do not want to. I am me, the mixture, the witch's brew.

The more different components your identity has, the fewer people there will be that you have 'nothing in common with'.

sorry for being long-winded.

What I'm trying to say is that to the question "do you feel more dutch or more swiss", I very soon started answering: "wrong question". And this attitude has served me well.

The immediate problem would be that you can't plunge into everything at the same time - greek music and american music and cuban music and argentine music and and and... but that's a luxury problem, really, isn't it? so much delicicious stuff around and dammit, you can eat only so much :) .

And as you are already finding out, one doesn't have to understand everything the other sings - an open ear does wonders. Yours, or your listener's.

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I've noticed that for people of mixed descent, it's the "foreign" part that tends to more visible; that is, the greek-american living in the US will be constantly reminded of his greekness, but if he returns to Greece to live he will be constantly reminded of his americanity.

There are basically 2 ways of coping with this.

One is to assert one component at the expense of all the others; in the best case it's self-mutilation, in the worst it leads to ethnic cleansing.

The other is to be conscious of the composite-ness and to get as much enrichment out of it as you can, as a compensation for the aches&pains.

The more different components your identity has, the fewer people there will be that you have 'nothing in common with'.

You put things so correctly Geske! I am myself full Portuguese but I lived for 15 years in France, from the age of 3 to the age of 18. Therefore, all my childhood and youth and that's very important because all the stuff that I learnt was French: literature, History, politics, you name it. When I was living there I used to claim a lot my portuguese heritage, that is I was proud of being Portuguese and of being different thus. When I came back to Portugal, I couldn't fit in, I was the Frenchie, I spoke with an accent and I didn't know about my portuguese heritage that much because all the things that should have made my cultural identity were French and not Portuguese. Even today, when I hear a name of a king for instance, I don't really know where to place him. For some years, I had difficulties in coping with all this because I didn't know what I was exactly as far as national identity is concerned. Then I went to Greece and that was another country to add to my menu. Even though I only stayed there for a year, something was added to, let's say it even though it sounds corny, my heart. Then, later on, I realized that I didn't have to identify myself with one cultural background only. What makes me as a unique person, as Celeste, is all this mixture and it makes me very much different from all those I see around me and didn't have this experience or decided to assume only one part of their mixed descent ( by this I mean the cultural one, not the blood one).

So, you know, yes, people may find strange the kind of music that I love, the kind of stuff that I read, the way I express myself, but then, if it wasn't that way, I wouldn't be me and I'm proud of being me and of the choices that I've made and if people ask me which part is more important in me, the Portuguese one, the French one or even (let's fetch it a little far) the Greek one, I answer that I really don't care. I am all that.

Well, Geske, you certainly said it all and much better than me but I had to add my two cents of "wisdom". :)

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Speaking of O palios stratiwths... I can proudly say that I liked the video clip (which means that I watched it too :) ).

So did I, but I can't stand the whole CD. Old talk, anyway...

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One word pulled the trigger!

Michael, Antometrios, Geske and Celeste. You are all scratching the wounds!

About the CD OK Dalaras made a CD with many different tunes but he didn't surrender to that type.

His following double CD (Zugos) was pure Greek (with one Spanish song).

The following 3 titles were "revisions". i.e. he never forgets his identity.

Speaking of identity... I remember Mr. A. Athens in an interview to 8. Lalas saying something by means that Greeks in foreign countries must mingle in the foreign society and becoming part of it.

My comment: opoios einai exw ap'ton xoro, polla tragoudia xerei

You, guys, are talking about western societies which you are part of them. So identity is matter of choice.and any choice you make will not be that harmful. Any choice will not make a big difference.

But if you were born in an eastern country and you were taught that you "belong" to another country, and finally you find it impossible to live in harmony in anyone of them When "mingling" means "identity loss" and when everything you've been taught isn't as "rosy" as it seemed to be

Here comes the identity crisis!

Anyway it's a very deep and complicated subject that no one yet has investigated thoroughlyand that it will not be solved in this page

And to close my message in a more cheerful (and topic related) way, here are two verses from the album:

με κάποιαν άλλη σε μπερδεύω με κάποιον άλλο μ' απατάς

χρόνια μαζί σου ταξιδεύω χωρίς να ξέρω πού με πας

:)

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Don't tell me you are complaining about Dalaras' voice because you saw him too many times! Lucky you!

As far as I am concerned, I discovered Dalaras with H Asphaltos, and so I really can't compare him with previous CD's. As you said it, it is the first time you hear him that is the best. And so his voice in this CD is "the best" for me, even if we can say that it is not the best of his career.

I also remark that H Asphaltos seems to be a cut from previous CDs, the type of songs, the different music, the change in the voice. What do you think?

:)

Not at all Natalie,

In fact, now that I see your Point of View more clearly,

I whole heartedly agree with it.

It seems a bit odd yes, but if one has never heard Dalaras sing before until he/she is introduced to this album "H asphaltos" and then later on hears him sing some of his older material, it's possible one would ask, is this really the same artist?

And why is that? Well probably only because alot of the songs mentioned from everybody here are not all from the same styles or genres.

There are a few songs on there believe it or not I didn't really care for.

I suppose "Parisi" is one of them.

But

O Palios Stratiotis is a Fantastic song and great Zembekiko. And I like Both the Studio and Live version of this from Zygos.

As for any re-makes on this cd

such as the Colloboration with Sting, 'Mad about you'

Let's just say I would love to see Dalaras sing his own Interpretation of an "AMANE"

'TAXIMI' on the song from Stings 'Desert Rose' just like the way the Morrocan or Algerian singer Mummie did for Sting.

Remember the Great Solo Dalaras gave us from his Voice on the Colloboration with Papakonstantino back at the "Attikon Concert"?

It was on Vasillis songs as a matter of fact he performed that great 'Amane' of his.

A Rock Ballad from composer 'NIkos Asimos' titled:

"Όπου να 'ναι θα 'ρθω να σε βρω"

It left you speechless and not knowing where he was going to take you with this but only the feeling in yearning for more to follow and precede. Thats why I think Dalaras should sing A Solo part in Desert Rose someday with Sting.

Tell my guys what do you all think of this?

Oppose, Agree and WHy or Why not?

:pity:

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I agree. I love Desert Rose. It's a perfect example of great multicultural music. And I want to hear that song you were talking about. I love amanes.

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den sou uposxomai zwh etc...

1. Panos, you changed the text slightly,

we have here:

δεν μου υπόσχεσαι ζωή...... [εσύ], then: do not promise me life

και θάυματα δεν κάνω [εγώ], and I do not make miracles]

then, we have two subjects in two lines and this may be a bit confusing, like it was now for you.

2. As for the "westernized" cover and leather jacket (one of my colleagues said: he looks like an old Harley-Davidson owner :)), do you remember this one of "Mi milas, kindinevei i Ellas"? And his tunes in this album are parallel to the "Asphaltos" in some way: they are not all "typical Greek", some are clearly "westernized", too. But Christos Nikolopoulos is a too good composer to make this unconsciously or throught lacking of own ideas or something of that kind.. Like it surely happened by the "Asphaltos", too. I do not think at all, this is an disadvantage. THis is a kind of development.

3. Panos, your previous question to "allo tha pei aisthanomai"...

The song is not among my favourites of this album.

But, well, this is me at the moment: not so many songs of the Asphaltos have the chances to be my favourites, but I understand, the another ones have and dare have their own pofile.

The only thing, what disturbs me painfully in the whole, is, as I said before, the "Paris" coming suddenly after "Xeno oneiro", so different songs, that the first notes of Paris are a true disaster destroying the effect of the previous song. I do not know, maybe it was made even on purpose?

4. I think, one of the best summaries of the "Asphaltos" is given in one of the songs of it (Patridognosia):

χρονιά μαζί σου ταξιδέυω

χωρίς να ξέρω, που με πάς...."

Sounds appropriate to Giorgos Dalaras' repertoire itself.

5. The discussion about identity - I need more time to think to join it. But it sounds interesting!

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For heaven's sake! :mad:

When I say "my friend's version" I don't mean a recorded version...I mean my friend's parody! It was a way to tease me ;)

I agree that the song sequence was a little bit irritating.

Paris after Se xeno oneiro.... Like a slap in the middle of a sweet dream!

Matia Kastana after H asfaltos pou trexei.... like an explosion after you reach the peak of your extasis.

But I like all of them :)

In the single:

Nuxta sto Ellhniko after Paris.... a dramatic change in the tunes (and mood)...

Sorry, but Nuxta sto Ellhniko is not one of my favourites... It's tune is wandering between all the other tunes and never reaches its own ...identity :pity:

Allo 8a pei ais8anomai: First of all the lyrics are so...touching.

The rhythm and music are pure oriental (remember: emena me nanourizan taximia kai amanedes :rolleyes: )... you feel your body and soul dancing in that rhythm :mad:

My comment about that song is its name...there is difference between feeling the song and understanding it :mad:

Mh milas...You can categorise him as a Rocker...but if look thoroughly at his photo and relate the year of release (late '80s) it can be compatible with the punk era (adding to that the hair style).

Nikolopoulos, in a genius way linked between Greek and Latin music!

I saw the clip of Mh milas and it wasn't so westernised... Neutral.

Patridognwsia: Poetry. A sweet way of describing the bright and dark side of a nation...and its relative events. A very good song :mad:

That's for now...give me a break...I got tired :wacko:

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Interestingly enough, "To Palto" was the only song I really liked the first time I listened to my rip-off one-CD version of the album (oh, besides "O Palios Stratiotis," of course--my favorite song :naughty: ). Then it faded from memory until I had to do a poetry anthology for school and my partner chose the "Stages of Life" as a theme. I contributed the translated lyrics (thanks, whoever's they were) of "To Palto" for old age and "Ilie Mou Se Parakalo" for death. The latter was a bit iffy, since I honestly am not sure at all what it's about (someone PM me if you know), but the song is ambiguous enough, in English anyway, that it worked. As for "To Palto," that's how I see it--a song about an old man who ... well, I'll just copy and paste:

"The Overcoat is a defiant yet mournful song that was released in 2001. The persona of a presumably old man explains that he is "still wearing/ the same overcoat,/ like ash, like dirt." Everybody asks him to get a new one, but he refuses. He insists on "withering away" in it. Clearly the overcoat is representative of his old ways of life, once new and impressive but now threadbare and gray. The man is reluctant to admit to all the young people around him that he has been outmoded, and so he draws his past close around him and hides his old self from the world."

Anyway ... I wrote a song. It's going to be recorded soon. Have a good night. (if it's night where you are).

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A Harley-Davidson, Olga? I have always envisioned Dalaras in a Mercedes sports car, because of the rear mirror on the CD cover.

Sorry for a slight digression, seeing it I could not resist, Natalie:

this about Harley Davidson look was the opinion of my friend, I would see him here not in a Mercedes, but in a dark red Alfa Romeo 146 or 156. Even, if the mirror of the photo does not suit to this type of car.

I am an absolute fan of Alfa Romeo, that's why...... We had once two in the family: a 146 and a 147, both silver metallic. :naughty::pity:;):blush:

And on the Kefallonia the last year we saw four 147s in the same small car park place in some ten - fifteen minutes, and it was even funny, because only the colours were different......

A stupid question: what car does Giorgos Dalaras really drive? Surely not Porsche, as he said in one of the interviews. But, what then?

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If Dalaras ever reads that discussion about his jacket, he'll ask EMI to change the album cover ;)

Something you didn't think of... At this period of time it was thought that he was going to "retire". People saw him as an "old guy".

The way he's dressed and the masterpieces he inerprets proved otherwise! :naughty:

Something to Geske:

Yesterday I met a Greek girl who's working as a doctor here. She's Athenian. We had an awesome chat for a long time (God, I miss my language).

Just before I go I asked her: What do you think of D?

- I don't like him...she replied in an unpleasant way.

I smiled and told her: typical native Greek. :blush:

I think my list is bigger than yours Geske.

On the other hand, my flat mate (Malaysian) who heard his voice got mad :blink: We spent yesterday 3 hours listening the CDs in the DVD player...

He borrowed all the 6 CDs I have here!

If I ever come back to Egypt, I'll get him the hystorical CD: H Asfaltos pou trexei :pity:

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I've just come from the record shop where I "stocked up" before leaving for Holland. When I came to the desk with a (fairly big) pile of cd's, and the girl saw that half of them were Dalaras, she said: "oh, you like Dalaras? me too, it's too bad that so many people speak ill of him..." And no, she wasn't just being polite - if she'd disliked Dalaras, she would have picked one of the other singers in the pile to make conversation about...

I'll tell you what I think. I think that all the nastier characteristics of "The Greeks" get exagerated, because the nasty people always seem to make more noise than the nice ones. The ones who drive like they're dead and in hell already, the ones who can't stand Dalaras, the ones who think god made Greece and the devil take the rest of the world........ those guys make the noise. And the rest, the nice, modest, musical, law-abiding, polite ones.... look, I know they exist, I keep meeting them all over the place!!! it's just they don't attract so much attention...

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Once again you are lucky :naughty:

But she told you: too bad that so many people speak ill of him. (so many!). ;)

That means that there is a girl in Greece who works as a cashier in a record shop and she Knows that there are many people who... "don't attract attention".

Of course they don't! Because D. does his duty as perfect as possible :pity:

:blush:

PS: My Malaysian colleague recorded all the CDs I have here and he is planning to buy more and more

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