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Geske

Κρυμμένα κλειδιά

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LOL. I am subscribed to sport.gr, so I get my daily dosage of sports. I liked melodia though. I am too sad they don't have real audio anymore.

And goodmorning friend. Do you want another moment? The cd is playing: Nyhterida. 1:03am

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Chris, I definately agree.

nikolas, I know it costs and I won't renew my subscription especially since they stopped showing videos from the greek league after the disagreement with Filmnet. I tend to use sportnews.gr more and more often.

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Anyway, to return to the topic...I mentioned Hronis Aidonidis. I suppose you all know that the producer of one of his albums, "Ta aidonia tis Anatolis" was Dalaras himself who also participated in the album. The songs were not adapted. Here is what Dalaras says in the LP. I have it in front of me. Only in Greek...

Όταν οι αναπότρεπτες συγκυρίες της ευκολίας και της αυθάδειας της εποχής εκτοπίσουν το γενεσιουργό ήχο της εθνικής μας μουσικής, τότε θα συνειδητοποιήσουμε το μεγάλο κενό. Όταν αποκοπούμε ουσιαστικά από τη μοναδική σε πλούτο εκραφή της παραδοσιακής μουσικής όπως είναι περασμένη μέσα στο αμιγές δημοτικό, στο λαϊκό αλλά και στο έντεχνο τραγούδι, θα αντιληφθούμε τη μουσική μας φτώχεια. Είναι υποχρέωση κάθε ακροατή να διαφυλάξει αυτό τον ήχο και πολλαπλάσια υποχρέωση κάθε Έλληνα μουσικού να τον διασώσει. Αναλαμβάνοντας αυτή την παραγωγή, εκμεταλλεύτηκα στην ουσία το "εμπορικό" μου όνομα για να αποσπάσω από τη δισκογραφική εταιρεία χρόνο και τεχνικά μέσα για την όσο το δυνατόν αρτιότερη ηχογράφηση των τραγουδιών. Αυτή ήταν η μικρή μου συμβολή και η ανταμοιβή μου μεγάλη. Τιμή και χαρά η συνεργασία μου με το Χρόνη Αηδονίδη και ακόμα μια μοναδική εμπειρία που μου αποκάλυψε καινούργια μυστικά. Με την ηρεμία και την απλότητα που του προσδίνει η γνώση, ο Χρόνης Αηδονίδης είναι ένας πού καλός δάσκαλος. Κι όσο γλυκός τραγουδιστής είναι, άλλο τόσο είναι ένας γλυκός άνθρωπος. Η βυζαντινή φωνή του ζεστή και ανόθευτη. Όταν την ακούς νομίζεις ότι την ήξερες από πάντα, ότι έρχεται από παντού. Απ' τα παλιά, απ' τα σημερινά, η φωνή των αγγέλων, η φωνή των ανθρώπων. Κλείνεις τα μάτια σου και ακούς τα χρώματα και τα τοπία. Μια δική μας φωνή και μαζί τόσο αποκομμένη ευτυχώς από τη σημερινή ασυνάρτητη μουσική σκηνή.

Αποφάσισα να συμμετέχω κι ο ίδιος συμβοολικά στο δίσκο μετά από σκέψη. Είναι πολύ δύσκολο να τραγουδήσεις δημοτικά τραγούδια. Και η σύγκριση με τους θρύλους του δημοτικού τραγουδιού είναι συντριπτική. Διασώζεσαι μόνο όταν υπάρχει κίνητρο, γνώση και μελέτη σε βάθος. Το δικό μου κίνητρο ήταν να συνεχιστεί με κάθε τρόπο η αλυσίδα. Σε ευχαριστούμε Χρόνη Αηδονίδη που υπάρχεις και τραγουδάς...

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  Allow there mates

But I just wanted to go off on a tangent a little and reply to the previous posts from the first and 2nd page which dwells with remakes of songs.

 I'm going to first agree whole heartedly with Sarantiis

 and state that remakes are for the best and is a good thing but certainly not 100% all the time 4 everyone.

 It's almost impossible to please all the people all the time with a new remake of a song but you can certainly please most of the people most of the time.

 With that said

      lets look at some artists

        here in the US that have done remakes and have become best seller hits on the top Billboard charts.

  1. Gloria Estefan  remake of 'Turn the Beat Around'    and    'Ever Lasting Love'  tribute to the 60's.

  2.  Cher   with  'Is it in his Kiss', don't know who sang the original but again its from the 60's.

 3.  Whitney Houston   with her rendition of  'I will always love you'.    Original by Dolly Parton.

  Whitney no doubt sings good and some say its better then the Dolly's, but I will disagree here only because Whitney emphasizes way too much vibrato on the chorus and sounds like she has a chorus pedal plugged up her rear end.

 

   As we Greeks like tp Nickname this in slang

       " Tragoudai san Karakatsa"    as poume

 Anyway that's my 2cents worth

sorry for going off on a tangent.

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 Ahoy there

       AnneMarie

Darn I'm too late shes already left for Greece

maybe she will see Dalaras there and tell us all about the Marousi concert for us.

  Anyhow, AnneMarie when you return, tell me

what did you mean I will get all under your skin from your posting on Krymena Kleidia?

 Does this have anything to do with the synthesizers in the track which in fact you may know that I play them and that you disliked it now?

  Ahh Ha  your right then, I could well be getting  under your skin big time!!!!

  lols

 Nikola where is that gun at?

     LOL

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 In reference to

Socs message

 Soc your aboslutely correct.

To talk of Dalaras retiring would be a tragic so I agree with you and lets NOT ever mention that again.

  I'm sorry I brung it up, but I just wanted to tell you I agree with you 100% on this  

 and I'll agree with Chris too!

In that Dalaras is the greatest and it makes it difficult at times for me to appreciate other Greek singers our there. And why I should by there cd's apart from Dalaras?

 Sometimes I don't

 and then other times I have too for the business I'm in since I play at Greek Weddings and Dances, I'm forced to keep up with the latest Epitihies coming out every 6 months or so.

  So in regards to that I have to learn the new pop hits whatever is hot at the moment while of course still play and retain the standards.

  Ahh  music appreciation

 ya just got to love it baby!!

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Soc, Christo    i really dont beleave Dalaras will ever retire fully from music until his final day...Let me explain..Someone who really enjoys or is passionate about something (as Dalaras is)will keep doing what he is doing until it becomes tiresome or a burden..I dont beleave Dalaras will ever become tired with music.In fact i dont beleave he has peaked yet..I beleave Dalaras has many great years of music  left in him.He may not tour as much,he may not appear live as much but you can bet on one thing,he will be active in music one way or another...I think some of his finest work lays ahead ..I expect to see a CD with Dalarases own songs and music.He has written a little in the past but i mean a full blown CD with his own work..I know that he has said that he has such work set aside for a future album.....Dalarases flame is burning bright and he has so much passion for music that he will never retire from music completely unless his health becomes an issue..Of course he is incredibly healthy now and really takes care of himself......Dalaras is the Micheal Jordan of Greek music !!!

    Christ Apostolakis, Dalaras did make that great quote about ,there will be a young girl born somewhere in Greece who will grow up to sing like Keti Grey..I think that is a true and very profound statement...Greek music is a national treasure.I really do beleave that there will be some incredible artist born in Greece and will have potential to become great artist and i welcome that....I only hope that the Radio,TV and record companys do not get to them first and try to turn them into teen idols and sufocate them artistically..I hope they have the passion and drive to maintain their artistic freedom and record quality music and not be dictated to by the record companys as to what they will or will not record......

   Will there ever be another Dalaras in Greece...No way,never!!!! If there ever is anyone even close i will be the first to buy his albums.......These are my opinoins,i welcome yours.....

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 Sarantis

 I agree wholeheardtedly with what you say and ever more so with your last comment.

  Will there ever be another Dalaras to surface from Greece?  and you said "No way never"

 So very True.

 

 How many artists have the patience, willingness, dedication, diligence, motivation, aspiration, & time to play so many different types of music without ever wondering if they will become best selling hits of if the people will like them? and if it will not jeopardize or hinder their career as an artist?

  How many of them will go out and perform for good Humane benefit concerts to help out others for the better and future of mankind both Greeks abroad and other cultures?

   Lets put it this way, if there is to be another Dalaras to come forth and that he is from Greece,

I don't think honestly we will see it occur in our lifetime.

 Maybe and thats a big maybe, by the end of this new century but who knows what will happen then because we won't be around ourselves to see it happen.

 

 BTW, I had something else important to ask you and I forgot what it is now.

  Oh well I guess it will have to keep for another thread.

(Edited by Christo at 7:58 pm on Sep. 1, 2001)

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Christo, thank you for agreeing with me and you make very good points as well...We may never see anothe Dalaras ever again,although it would be nice for Greek music's sake that some young artist will come forth and try to be as passionate and honest to their trade as Dalaras has been,in other words "not give in to the record companys" and follow their hart as Dalaras has....One other very important thing that i failed to mention about Dalaras is that he has the utmost respect for the early great composers and songwritters of the 50's thru 70's...He always mentions them and gives his respect to them in interviews and even in private conversations that i have had with him..He always shows respect for those who paved the road for him and greek music...I admire that....Then he has the incredible foresight to find the great new songwritters and composers of today..This is a great quality in my opinion...Because i feel that the greatest classic songs have yet to be written and furthermore there is still enough room in Greek music history for great new composers..It would be foolish for us to think that the greatest songs were all written before 1970..We have to beleave that some great songs are yet to be written..If we do not beleave this then we should stop buying new albums and CD's and simply just listen to the old hits....The last thing i need to hear is my older relatives telling me "they just dont write songs like they used to"...I simply refuse to beleave this or buy into that theory..Some great classics have yet to be written!!!

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Nobody will ever fill Dalaras' shoes, but in a country so crammed with musicians, surely someone with the same size will turn up :)

Saranti, do you really think Dalaras is going to do a whole CD of his own compositions? In the near future?

I can only think of one or two songs he's made himself - tried to find more via the site but I don't seem to get on with the lyrics-search-engine. Are there many?

Meanwhile I'm still struggling with that quote Nikolas posted on page 4. It's real interesting but it's taking me ages, so if anyone cares to give me a few hints (I do NOT mean a full-blown translation, just a few pointers...) I will be very grateful!

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Geeska, although i never discussed with Georgo during our private conversations this matter about him doing his own compositions, i do remember him saying during interviews the last year or so that he has written his own music and lyrics and that he has it set aside for a future release..My guess is probably within the next two years...He has written a few songs along with others...An intro that he did for a while during concerts in the early 90's "kalosorisate" and a couple of songs with Papakostandinou on their live recording had songs written by Dalaras and papakostandinou.These are the ones that come to mind immediately.Im sure there are a couple more...

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 Geeske, Saranti

 Dalaras wrote the music to the theme title track

  "Yia Ta Tragoudi Kai Ego Fteo"

    with lyrics by Yiannis Spuropoulou Mpax the same  lyricst who wrote Didimotiko Blues I believe if I'm not mistaken.

Also don't forget its worth mentioning

 that Dalaras and Poykarpos Kyriacou

 helped to write the lyrics

   of the song "CYPRUS"

 composed by Al Dimeola

 Speaking of Dimeola,  

  Saranti I now remember what it is I wanted to ask you.

  What does Dalaras think of Roland's New Technolgoy in the MIDI Guitar interface module/Synthesizer?

 For example, obviously Dalaras has seen Dimeola use it on his recordings and performed with it at the Meadowlands Concert (even though the sounds Dimeola used were not really appropriate for the Latin-Greek number Perasmenes Mou Agapes).

 I havent seen Dalaras use the Roland Guitar Synth on stage yet or in his recordings.  Does he like this new technology?  Does he plan to use it soon?

 Also do you know if Roland or anyone else can convert the Bouzouki to be Midi Compatible?

 The problem with the Bouzouki as you may know is that it uses only 4 strings instead of 6 and worse  the strings are doubled instead of using single layers

  which thus causes the problem that the MIDI Converter doesn't know which string to read.

  I have only seen this mastered once from a

 Great Greek Bouzouksis in New York.

   However, at the time, he would not reveal his source.

 

 

(Edited by Christo at 10:00 pm on Sep. 4, 2001)

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Christo

I can't be able to know if they will include bouzouki in such technologies, I just hope that they won't and mainly I hope that even if they do it, Dalaras and others won't use it for the bouzouki, oud etc. The natural sound can't be replaced...

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Christo, im very sure Dalaras will not ever use the Roland midi technology.This is something that Al Demiola started using several years ago and he really likes personally.I really do not like the sound and i have not discussed this with Dalaras but im very sure dalaras will never go to that sound.It sounds awefull.It makes very expensive beautiful sounding instruments sound like a two dollar kazou .I feel that Dalaras  likes the natural sound of the instruments and therfore will not ever go to that.This is why he uses acoustic guitar in shows and not electrics.Electrics change the sound of the music drastically and i feel "one" of the keys to Dalarases  sucess is using acoustic instruments.If you notice even the bouzouki player Garantini has changed from the traditional "Savas" pick up to a more natural sounding "EMG" pick up.If you listen closely to Garantinis bouzouki sound ,it actually sounds very acoustic.This is hard to do with a bouzouki plugged in thru a soundsystem.Bouzoukis are midrangy and hard to amplify and make sound good..Now all bouzouki players are changing over to the EMG for its more acoustic sound. It really is amazing how what Dalaras and his band do changes a lot in the minds of other Greek musicians all over the world.I remember my wifes cousin coming to visit us from Greece about 13 years ago.He is a musician and when he arrived here the first thing he wanted to do was go and find an Ovation Adamas just like the one Dalaras played.More recently in a TV interview in Greece.Kety Garbis's husband was being interviewed on a talk show and he had a new guitar with him.The interviewer asked him to show his new guitar he was so proud of and he even played a song on it.He later revealed that he had seen Dalaras playing this new guitar and that he loved it and had to find the same guitar.Of course this was the same guitar that i had givin Dalaras when he was here...So, it does matter to other musicians what Dalaras is using,whether its guitars,mics,lighting,etc..

              Dalaras uses the best and latest technology.The rest watch to see what he does and then they follow..Just like with music.When Dalaras did the "Latin" album.Soon after several greek artists started doing the same type of latin music .Now that Dalaras is performing with orchestras,you see others doing the same thing.....He really does set the trends in Greece and the others watch closely..

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Christo, i forgot to answer your other question on my earlier post..You wrote:"Also do you know if Roland or anyone else can convert the Bouzouki to be Midi Compatible? "  

Chris, im sure it would be very easy to make a Midi that would work on a Bouzouki,but i dont see the point.The bouzouki is already a difficult instrument to amplify properly and still maintain its acoustical charactristics..By adding the midi you totally change the sound of the instrument.As i understand it a midi changes the sound of an instrument like a guitar to sound like something else. keyboard,violin,horns,etc...

      Im not sure what the advantage of changing the sound of an ethnic instrument like a bouzouki would be..I dont ever see a midi set up for a bouzouki....Although i have spoken with Ovation guitars about the possibility of them making bouzoukis..I have spoken to a few guys at the factory and we have thrown the idea around.It has receaved lukewarm response so far.I will keep working on them...After all they do build  ukelailis and mandocellos and put them into production..

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I heard this song on the radio station soc loves so much, Melodia FM. It was in the first days of July, maybe end of June, I remember it was in Patra because here we don't have Melodia FM...:)<p>As most expected by someone who listens to this station, I heard it on Kostas Thomaidis' hours. This guy is also a well known singer and has very big knowledge and experience in music and songs from all over the world. All songs that Dalaras "steals" from other countries, you usually can hear them after in his two daily hours. There you can listen to original Luna Rossa for example. There, I heard Krimmena Klidia in the original version. But I didn't catch him in the introduction of this track so I don't remember the title. In fact, even if I had heard the title, I would have not remembered it...I am sure!<p>Annemarie, I have a very close friend from Rians, near Marseille. Do you think I should ask her?<p>I have to confess that around 70% of the time, my tuner was on this station. Only in the last year it was less. Because I tuned to Sport-fm...you know, we love sports!

http://www.sport-fm.gr

http://www.melodia.gr

OK, so it took a little time - 4 years less 3 days...........

but tonight I heard it too.

The original of Krymena kleidia.

On radio Melodia, on Kostas Thomaidis hour.

The original title is ti eliz isa, and the version Thomaidis was playing is by the group Dao dezi.

Isn't it improbable, that a Greek guy should fonetically tell this to a Dutch woman over the phone, and that Google should then cough up the right thing at the first try........ But the fact that I telefoned Thomaidis at all is so astronomically improbable, after that, anything can happen.

Anyway, here's the record:

http://www.gwerz.com/disques/artistes/daod...rldmixalbum.htm

The song is not from Southern France but from Brittany (Bretagne) about which, by some kind of weird chance, I just read a fat classic ethnografical standard. It's a gwertz, that is, one of the kinds of traditional songs they have. The album listed here is from 1995, the sound is as "modern" as in Krymena kleidia, and it is probably Manos Ksydous' source. But there are many more versions of the song, by Alan Stivell, the Goadec sisters, and others. In the Dao Dezi version, the singer is Denez Prigent.

Small joke: I surfed by a forum dedicated to the Breton language, where the question had been asked "what does it mean, 'ti eliz isa'?" and the answers varied so wildly that it seems most likely to be a traditional title which means nothing at all. (Breton, in case you didn't know, is a Celtic language, related to Welsh but not at all to French).

Big joke: Kostas Thomaidis had quite forgotten that Dalaras had covered that song in Greek...

Παιδιά έγραψα το ποστ τα αγγλικά γιατί έτσι ξεκίνησε την συζήτηση για το «γαλλικό» πρωτότυπο του «Κρυμμένα κλειδιά» - πείτε μου, χρειάζεται να το μεταφράσω;

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Bringin up another old topic! And still in English, I'm sorry. The reading is getting better though!


You know that situation when you feel the urge to pull up an 'old' record, and suddenly you hear stuff you've never noticed before? Happened to me yesterday.
I had put Η άσφαλτος που τρέχει on, had been a while. And my ears caught the beautiful solo's on κρυμμενα κλειδια. Now from reading all the previous post I understand that the outi-solo near the end is played by Dalaras himself, but I was wondering about the other solo that starts around 2:15 minutes. Since I don't have the booklet, can anyone tell me who's playing it, and if it's been played by a soprano saxophone or a Turkish metal G-clarinet? The last one was my initial hunch, but I also hear the same melody being played one octave lower, and that wouldn't be possible... that would have to be alto-saxophone or tenor. Or maybe it's done by some sort of 'octaver'?
I'm confused! 

 

Edit: or maybe it's a synthesizer... completely electronically produced anyway. Could also be possible and would explain the octave-thing... Oh my, more confusing ;-)

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I do have the booklet, so here are the musicians:

Nikos Zervas: keyboards, midi

Giorgos Dalaras: outi, tzouras, baglamas

Filippos Tsemperoulis: saxofono (soprano, alto, tenoro)

Vangelis Karipis: krousta

Spyros Δ.: akoustic & electric guitar

Dimitris Margetakis: computer programming

Orchestration by: Giorgos Dalaras

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Ευχαριστώ πολύ! Dankjewel  ^_^ 

 

That sort of leaves two options still open... Soprano saxophone, or computer/digital/keyboards of some sort.  :chinscratch: Guess I'm the kind of person that weirdly obsesses over this kind of stuff. Sorry if it gets annoying at some point! If so I'll try and contain myself  ;) 

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