Natalie

Who are the Dalaras fans?

144 posts in this topic

An interesting but difficult topic, Natalie.

In the past (long before this website and the Forum was established) I asked myself a similar question, namely if there is something like a common personality trait of people who have preferences for the same kind of music or for a certain singer (like Dalaras for example). At that time I tended to believe that such common characteristics (in mentality, taste, way of thinking etc.) indeed exist.

In the meantime I do not longer think so. (I mean, of course they may exist, but it is not something that applies necessarily and automatically when people love the same music, the same singer etc.) Concerning Dalaras, this is a result of my personal (listening-) "experiences" with him and - as a consequence - partly also of my experiences here in the Forum:

- Dalaras himself has changed very much in what he is singing during all the last years, and with all his "experiments" (as singer) he lost (for me) a lot of the fascination he had in the past. Roughly one could say that I am more an admirer of Dalaras' past than of Dalaras as singer of today (though of course there are still a number of touching moments in the present too).

- Needless to say that the above point of view is not appreciated by many of Dalaras' "full admirers" (let's call them this way). :) And this is the interesting experience of participating in this Forum (already from the beginning, some years ago): That appreciating and listening to Dalaras does not automatically mean that the people who do it have the same way of thinking, the same opinions (about music) etc.

I don't know if this was a clear answer, anyway it was a first and spontaneous attempt. Let's see what other members will write. :razz:

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:blink: :D

Just now I wanted to answer to your last posting, Natalie. But you removed it. (And your first one too.) ??? :D

If you still have the text, please post it again, because I do not remember all the details you wrote and so I cannot answer correctly. :D

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Sorry, Michael :( . Out of respect for you, for the courtesy and cheerfulness you have always shown to me (thanks! :mad:) ... I would wish to continue this topic if you are still interested. I myself am very interested to hear your very interesting, as always, points of view and to discuss further. I haven't kept a copy of my posts, so I am just going to list the main lines of my last post, so that you may express your opinion in answer.

Thanks for your thoughtful and very enlightening answer. I believe that answers that are given before your thoughts are properly analyzed and structured may reflect more genuinely your ideas/feelings. It is a kind of gut feeling, I would say.

Wouldn't the fact that you do not like the "modern" Dalaras be indicative that he does not fit any more your type of personality, and that your "type" would be closer to the "ancient" Dalaras?

I mentioned that when I like (i.e. being a fan, not just to like a few songs) a singer, I tend to have to like not just the singing (the voice), but also the whole personality (involvement in charitable work, contributions to society, modesty, honesty in expression etc.). In a few cases, I have later discovered certain aspects of personality about the artist that made me lose respect for him as a person, and that has affected my "liking" of his singing, even though he still sings the same way. (Of course, I can still listen to his songs, but I am not a fan any more.)

I would like to add something now, because I have thought about all this since we started the discussion. It's funny that even for the same person (for example me in this case), I would tend to listen to singers that show the same type of personality traits, which reveals of course a common trait for myself. Or for the same singer, I would tend to like certain kinds of songs (this may be similar to your case with the ancient Dalaras), which would also show another common trait. I discovered all this about myself when I found out that the French singers I like, and furthermore, the songs of a specific French singer that I like, were singing or were songs from Pierre Delanoe, in the topic "French Songs".

So, Michael, if you analyze yourself about the kinds of singers and the type of mysic/songs you like, I think maybe you will also discover something about yourself, if you haven't known it already. Won't you like to analyze it loudly here?

That was for one person. As for the fans of a specific singer, for example Dalaras in this case, I heard what you said, but I still believe that there is a common trait among his fans. It does not necessarily have to be something complicated or grandiose, it is just a personality trait, like another one. This may seem more obvious if I ask you, do the Dalaras fans like singers like Anna Vissi, for example? I think you would either laugh or shake your head, no way! :( See what I mean?

Another thing I would also like to discuss is what do you think about fan loyalty versus loyalty to fans (i.e. the artist's loyalty towards the fans)? I won't say more than that for now, but rather, i will let you start the discussion the way you interpret and think about it. :mad:

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:mad:

Thank you, Natalie, for your effort and writing your post again. As I mentioned, I had read the initial one, but my memory is not good enough that I could refer to it some time later without reading it again. :mad:

Well, that's of course a new and quite complex point you write about. How much is a listener (or how much am I myself) influenced in the preferences (or dislikes) for a certain singer (or an artist in general) by the personality of this singer as a whole? (I think that's the central idea of your post.)

Concerning myself, in the case of Dalaras the answer is relatively easy: I do not think that I am really influenced by Dalaras' personality as a whole (but only - or at least primarily - by his activities as artist). The reason is simple: I do not know so much (or so characteristic details) about Dalaras' personality that I could say: "Yes, he is not only a good singer but also a phantastic personality in general", or that I could say the opposite: "No, I do not like him because I dislike his personality."

Here in the Forum somewhere is a whole topic (written in Greek) where people try to understand why there are (primarily in Greece) many people who speak or think in a negative way about Dalaras (as personality). As far as I can see, the main points why people do criticize Dalaras are: that he is primarily interested in making money, that he tries to interfere in a lot of topics (especially politicial ones) only to have attention and to become even more rich than he already is. Some people say that Dalaras is arrogant. There may also be some who dislike him for certain political opinions. (As far as I know this happened for example when there was a performance in the USA where Dalaras participated and criticized the politics of George Bush. This was disapproved by many Greeks in the USA.)

Concerning the money, the Greek singer/actor (or whatever he may be called) Tzimi Panousis once showed Dalaras in a video-montage in which out of Dalaras' mouth during singing rolled money. Dalaras sued Panousis (I think primarily but not only because of this video) and Panousis lost the lawsuit. As far as I know, the court forbid him to mention again Dalaras' name in his performances.

Finally, concerning this aspect, I would like to mention how Dalaras' name was written somewhere in the Internet (obviously by someone who does not like him): "Dοllara$". :(

That's my (rough) impression about the reasons why some people dislike or criticize Dalaras. I hope that other members will correct these impressions if they are wrong or incomplete.

On the other side we have many people (of course especially here in the Forum :() who say that Dalaras as personality in general is an extraordinary man in a positive way. They praise (besides from his merits as artist) his efforts in political matters - first of all, I think, his activities for Cyprus - and his honesty in these efforts. Some members who had the possibility to meet him personally, describe him as a very humble, friendly and likeable personality, etc.

The conclusion for my own opinion about his personality can only be that I have to be more or less neutral when judging this personality, though with a certain tendency towards the positive side: There are surely some political and ideological questions where I share completely Dalaras' point of view, especially as he expressed them in some interviews (for example concerning the critics of Bush's politics, of the western lifestyle, the bad influence of the mass media etc.). So in this respect I clearly sympathize with Dalaras' personality. On the other hand I cannot see in him the "hero" as it happens sometimes here in the Forum. He never had to risk something substantial when saying certain things (or doing certain things). And involvement in charitable work is undoubtedly a fine thing but it is surely not a special quality of Dalaras; it is something that has become a more or less usual activity of many artists all over the world. So I think that in this respect Dalaras is overestimated by his fans.

So returning to the beginning: I think that my opinion(s) about Dalaras as singer (either the positive or the "negative"/critical ones) have to do more or less exclusively with what he is doing as singer (= musician), without being influenced very much by the few things I know (or have heard) about him as personality in general.

This does not apply to all artists. For example in some cases my opinion about an artist (and his work) is influenced in a negative way because I dislike their personality respectively "ideology": Manos Hatzidakis (composer), Nikos Gatsos (lyric writer and poet), Akis Panou (composer and song writer). Here happens exactly what you describe in your posting (in my examples of course not in relation with the singing, but the songs themselves):

In a few cases, I have later discovered certain aspects of personality about the artist that made me lose respect for him as a person, and that has affected my "liking" of his singing, even though he still sings the same way. (Of course, I can still listen to his songs, but I am not a fan any more.)

(O.k. concerning Hatzidakis, I admit that I was never a fan of his work. :razz: )

But of course it happens also the other way around: "Knowing" a little bit better (up to a certain degree) and appreciating for example the personality of Lefteris Papadopoulos or Panos Falaras (both lyric writers) this fact influences in a positive way my opinion about their work. (Though in case of L. Papadopoulos in the meantime I am a little bit more cautious concerning his personality.)

But you should not forget that all these cases are more the exceptions. Usually I listen(ed) to a voice or a song and I lik(ed) it (or not). So it happened to me in the case of Dalaras (and of Greek music in general). I liked Dalaras voice (and the songs I had heard) already when I did not even know his name (the less anything about his personality or the personality of the composers, lyric-writers etc.). Usually first you become acquainted with the work of an artist and this will be decisive for what you think "about him" (as artist, at least). And I believe that these impressions will only be influenced in a strong way when you learn (later on) quite specific and profound details of the artist's personality. And this does not happen so often (at least when you do not have the possibility to know so many details about this personality).

I hope this was understandable. (It is difficult for me to express all this in English. :pity: )

Anyway, for the moment I have written enough. I know that I did not really refer to all the aspects you mentioned in your posting, Natalie. But surely there will be a possibility later on to come back to what you wrote. (So do not remove it again. :razz: )

So up to now I did not refer to your interesting example of Anna Vissi. For the moment, I just tell you that I do not lough at all or shake my head, because I appreciate her voice and a part (not all) of her work very much and I do not mean only her very old songs she made together with Dalaras, but also her later songs. :music: But I think with this opinion (or let's better say: taste) I am the only one here in the Forum. :razz: :lol:

PS:

Of course other members would be welcome to express there opinions too, but until now they did not. :pity: (Maybe this will change when the period of holidays is finished.)

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I've met many people who don't like Dalaras. The reasons most of them give are based on the misunderstandings/lies/slander that circulate about him. Sometimes it's hard to be patient with them.

I've met many people who do like Dalaras. In all degrees from casual liking to deep lifelong love. Including insane adoration, I-like-him-but, fanaticism, I-used-to-like-him-but....... and so on.

I can't see any characteristic they have in common. None at all. Except that they want to listen to Dalaras.

And a little warning to Natalie: don't take the people in this forum as representative of Dalaras' entire audience.

It's a lot like the real world in here, but it isn't.

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Michael

I am still trying to absorb all that you wrote. :rolleyes: It is interesting that you went in so much detail about Dalaras, because one question that I have is, when talking about "Dalaras fans", first, who is Dalaras? And the other question is, who are his fans?

I know, well, almost nothing really about Dalaras except what had been discussed in English in this forum, and a few articles I have read. I know the aspect that Dalaras is not, or seems not to be, liked in Greece has popped up in the past but of course, but since this is the Dalaras fan site, it was not very popular. Still, I think it does not hurt to hear both sides, not just the positive golden side that is presented of him in this forum. At least, it is my belief that if you are a fan, you know who you are a fan of, you accept the artist the way he is.

A funny thing I observed is that I have never seen a forum where people discussed about Dalaras. They discuss about other Greek artists, but never him. I found this very strange (I probably did not visit the right forums, or they were in Greek), since he is supposedly the "national" Greek singer. At least, that's the impression I had.

So who is Dalaras? Is he still the #1 national singer of Greece? Or has his popularity gone down? And why? Why do people say he only cares for money?

I read an article a long time ago about some squabble with Theodorakis, I think about the CD Axion Esti, a question of royalties or something like that. I read another article where people complained about a charity concert he did, that some of the proceeds were not given but was kept to pay the musicians etc. As you see, negative stuff again. Positive stuff are articles about his artist work and Cyprus issue.

Of course, when reading all those things, I take them with a grain of salt, as I don't know the person, this is all hearsay. Some people suggested that it is jealousy. I personally can't comment on that. But one thing I do know about other great singers that I like, there do not seem to be petty criticisms about them like that, at least not that I have read of. Btw, why was he not on talking terms with Alexiou?

And who are his fans? Is there still a lot of the "original" fans left or is it the younger generation who is his main fan base now? I wonder what happened after the Dalaras/Remos concerts, whether there are more fans for Dalaras or for Remos now? :)

As for Geske, don't you worry, I don't consider this forum's members as representative of Dalaras' audience. After all, there is only a handful of the members participating, OK, two handfuls. Shall I count the toes also? :music:

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Natalie, I hope that you do not expect all the answers from me. Simply because I do not know them too. :)

Still, I think it does not hurt to hear both sides, not just the positive golden side that is presented of him in this forum.

I fully agree with you. (Not only referring to Dalaras alone but to any artist.) But at the moment I do not remember too a non-Greek website with a discussion about Dalaras. For those who speak Greek it is useful to take a look at the Forum of Music Heaven:

http://www.musicheaven.gr/html/modules.php...rums&file=index

I think there were already some (controversial) discussions about him but because of lack of time I do not visit this (very interesting) website very often and I could not find these discussions now with a quick search.

[Off topic, only for Natalie:

What I found now by chance is a topic called "Ο Βασιλιάς Ελβις ζει ..." = "King Elvis is still alive ..." :pity: But it is written in Greek too. Here the link:

http://www.musicheaven.gr/html/modules.php...ic=3163&forum=6 ]

Concerning the popularity of a singer, the number of records sold, is of course only one aspect, but more or less the only one you can really check. So here is a link to a list with the Golden (and Platinum) Records in Greece from 1995 to 2005: http://www.musiconline.gr/gold/index.html

So that's all from my side for the moment.

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Numbers have very little meaning for me, my brain doesn't seem to process them very well.

But I remember the shock when I found out that Dalaras has sold more records than there are Greeks in Greece.

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Thanks for the interesting stats, Michael. :) As you say, you can only place a limited interpretation from them. I did learn new names of singers I never knew of, though.

After all, Dalaras is still quite young, and he still has lots to go on with. I am thinking of Engelbert who is 72 (?), and who is giving concerts all year round and around the world (he kind of lives 300 days per year out of a suitcase). And there are young ladies of 60, 70, 80 years young who are going to be there till he can't sing any more. :pity:

There is another trend also that I don't know if it is the same in Greece. It seems people are into retro now, as you see old bands and singers making a comeback in their late 50's and 60's and having quite a success not just with their old fans, but also with the new generation. I don't know why, maybe today's music is not so good or creative any more?? I find most of it is artificial and synthesized music.

Going to a CD store to me is like going to a hardware store (metal, hammer, nails, etc.), or else, an alternative medicine store. :D

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In answer to off topic, Michael:

They forgot to add "... and reigns". :)

Btw, for a non-Western ear, you are a fast learner, starting to pay attention to all things Elvis.

Bee Gees next?? :pity:

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Btw, for a non-Western ear, you are a fast learner, starting to pay attention to all things Elvis.

Bee Gees next??  :)

It is as with "Pavlov's dog" (I hope that's the way it is called in English):

You have teached me that I react when there is a certain signal - that means when I read the name "Elvis" (and yes: "Bee Gees" too). :music::music:

After all, Dalaras is still quite young, and he still has lots to go on with. I am thinking of Engelbert who is 72 (?), and who is giving concerts all year round and around the world (he kind of lives 300 days per year out of a suitcase).  And there are young ladies of 60, 70, 80 years young who are going to be there till he can't sing any more. :)

Here in Austria we have also a famous singer who still gives concerts though he is already 71 or 72: Udo Juergens. Concerning Dalaras, some members here in the Forum already referred to statements of him that he will retire from singing within the next years. So we should not expect to hear him until he is 70. :what:

Concerning the age of Dalaras' fans: A few years ago a Greek girl (about 25 years old) said to me: "Dalaras? He is a singer for old people." :what: Of course this statement is not representative and as we know also here from the Forum, there are some very young people too who listen to Dalaras. ;)

There is another trend also that I don't know if it is the same in Greece. It seems people are into retro now, as you see old bands and singers making a comeback in their late 50's and 60's and having quite a success not just with their old fans, but also with the new generation. I don't know why, maybe today's music is not so good or creative any more?? I find most of it is artificial and synthesized music.

As far as I can judge from the distance (not being in Greece), the same trend seems to dominate in Greek music too. Not necessarily (or only partly) with old singers making a comback, but in the sense that the still popular singers (and also newcomers) are playing again and again the old "classical" songs, primarily in live recordings. That's one of the phenomenons that made for me listening to Greek music relatively boring during the last years. And of course this is something that I also criticize(d) in the case of Dalaras: One live album after the other and (almost) nothing new. :( (O.k. finally, there was the album with new songs "Sta tragoudia pou sou grafo". It was already time for it. :what: ).

The reason seems to be what you mentioned: It seems that there is a lack of new material (= songs), at least for a certain category of singers . Either it is not produced, or it is produced but it does not satisfy the singers or the record companies or the public or all these groups together. (I do not know ...)

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Michael

I taught you nothing. I think it is that Elvis Week in Vienna that was starting to take its toll on you. As for the Bee Gees, well, you are probably also looking for that elusive magic that only they can give you? B)

Dalaras announced that he will retire in a few years? I did not know that. Pavarotti announced his retirement also. This is the third and last time, and he is stretching over 18 months or 2 years. B)

From what I have read so far, I think it is very difficult for singers like Dalaras, Pavarotti etc., who have been singing since their young age (and having lived in a musical environment since their babyhood, as their fathers were also singers), and who have been the # 1 top singers (in their field), to quit just like that. More than the money (as they already have more than enough money), it is the applause that they can't live without. It is much an ego thing, I think.

Engelbert said in an interview in his DVD "Live", it is the applause that makes him feel appreciated for his hard work that keeps him going (i.e. still singing). And he will be there as long as the fans want him to. The Bee Gees, on the other hand, have always been straightforward and said that it's not about the money - they don't do their music for the money, but money of course will naturally follow the success if people listen to you - it is about being recognized for their work as songwriters and singers. They have always worked very, very hard and I find that the quality of their songs (whether they are hits or not) is perfecter than perfect. B) (If you have some time, you may be interested to learn more about their songwriting achievements, they are just incredible! ;) )

Interesting what the young Greek girl said. I guess some other people may also have such a perception of Dalaras, probably because he looks so serious and used to frown against the exhibition of fan adoration. Although it appears that now, he kind of likes running away from the teenage girls (in some previous concerts, I can't remember with which other singer) to hide in the artists' backstage room, as well as being thrown roses at, in the concerts with Remos :mad:

A word about the live CD's. Why do you dislike Dalaras for that? You don't have to. Just don't buy the CD. :music: I think that it is where the limit starts between fan and non-fan, because the real fans would enjoy buying the live CD's, especially if they have not been able to attend the concerts. (I even prefer to hear the different live versions of the songs sung by Elvis as I think they are much better than the studio recordings.)

I would only comment that the live CD's and DVD's of Dalaras would also include other singers whom you may not be interested to hear, but that is another story, because it seems in Greece, people don't mind that at all. :blush:

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I am not a fan. I still find the stuff Dalaras used to make before he became a singer of music for elevators very good. The real McCoy, y'know. But I'm certainly not his fan, no I have no patience for Greek Sinatras, I leave that for the old aged, sorry. Just a word directly from hell. B)

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It seems people are into retro now, as you see old bands and singers making a comeback in their late 50's and 60's and having quite a success not just with their old fans, but also with the new generation. I don't know why, maybe today's music is not so good or creative any more?? I find most of it is artificial and synthesized music.

It is definitely not the musicians problem. Musicians are and have always been musicians. The world is roughly the same with its natural changes and I find it terrible to be nostalgic. There's a small place for nostalgia, yes, but it should be very small or we'll all end up like our fathers who were simply ran over by the new and led to believe everything that was before must have been wonderful. Think: no, it wasn't.

There are loads of interesting stuff if you look for it. Maybe not what they usually play on most radio stations, naturally.

Anyway, the problem you seem to be referring to isn't, so I believe, directly related to the musicians. It has to do with the industry, the new production techniques and the huge role producers (who have an overwhelming impact on the final product that comes on CDs) have and how they all use the same learned techniques, thus leaving less place for difference.

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I taught you nothing. I think it is that Elvis Week in Vienna that was starting to take its toll on you.  As for the Bee Gees, well, you are probably also looking for that elusive magic that only they can give you?  :)

I would not know anything about the Elvis Week if you had not mentioned it. B) I am already "trained" to names you mention: Today by chance they played in the Austrian radio Elvis, Bee Gees and Engelbert (and referred to their names) and I immediately thought: "Ah, that are the singers Natalie spoke about." ;)

From what I have read so far, I think it is very difficult for singers like Dalaras, Pavarotti etc., who have been singing since their young age (and having lived in a musical environment since their babyhood, as their fathers were also singers), and who have been the # 1 top singers (in their field), to quit just like that. More than the money (as they already have more than enough money), it is the applause that they can't live without. It is much an ego thing, I think.

Some people here will not be happy when reading such remarks. :razz:

Personally, I do not know which are the reasons why a singer decides to quit or to continue. As long as the voice (and the repertoire) is o.k., I think it is no problem when a singer continues.

Interesting what the young Greek girl said. I guess some other people may also have such a perception of Dalaras, probably because he looks so serious and used to frown against the exhibition of fan adoration. Although it appears that now, he kind of likes running away from the teenage girls (in some previous concerts, I can't remember with which other singer) to hide in the artists' backstage room, as well as being thrown roses at, in the concerts with Remos :razz:

Yes, it may be a matter of "image", "styling" etc. But I think it is also simply a matter of different musical tastes: I have the impression that many of the young(er) people prefer another type of music than Dalaras represents: more "modern" sound, more "pop" sound etc. Dalaras since a long time and up to a certain degree tries to move in this direction too. (See also his concerts with Remos.) On the other hand he also tries to keep a certain connection with his musical roots. Nevertheless many of the young people seem to like more the "pure" modern sound (as represented by Rouvas, Hatzigiannis etc.etc.)

A word about the live CD's. Why do you dislike Dalaras for that? You don't have to. Just don't buy the CD. :razz:

With this argument you can "kill" every critical statement: "You need not listen to this song, to read this book, to watch this film, ... if you dou not like it." :razz: But anyway, it takes a longer time since I buy a live CD with an artist than a studio record: So in case of Dalaras I bought immediately his last studio record, whereas until know I do not have all of his live CDs. ;)

I think that it is where the limit starts between fan and non-fan, because the real fans would enjoy buying the live CD's, especially if they have not been able to attend the concerts. (I even prefer to hear the different live versions of the songs sung by Elvis as I think they are much better than the studio recordings.)

Obvioulsy at least in this respect I am not a real fan (probably in other respects I am not too ;)). In other times it was usual that a (Greek) singer published a new (studio) record (with new songs) about once a year. In the meantime all is dominated by live records, with the same songs again and again (either the highlights of the singer himself, either the hits from others). For me this is boring, but obviously the real fans have a different opinion as such recordings seem to be very popular.

I would only comment that the live CD's and DVD's of Dalaras would also include other singers whom you may not be interested to hear, but that is another story, because it seems in Greece, people don't mind that at all.  ;)

The participation of singers I do not like may be a little bit annoying but it would not be a reason not to buy the records. I simply would skip the songs performed by these singers. :razz:

-----------

I still find the stuff Dalaras used to make before he became a singer of music for elevators very good.

That's a harsh criticism. I regard it as an exaggeration of course, but (unfortunately) I cannot say that nighthawk is completely wrong with his sarcastic words .... :pity:

But I'm certainly not his fan, no I have no patience for Greek Sinatras, I leave that for the old aged, sorry.

Here I did not understand what you mean with "no patience for Greek Sinatras"? Do you think he is already too old (his voice no longer good enough) for singing or do you think he should choose other songs?

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I think he should indeed choose a very different repertoire. But that's only my viewpoint, of course.

I see (and agree. :) [Though his last CD in general was not bad.])

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Nighthawk

I am not sure which Dalaras' music you referred to by elevators' music, which CD's are they?

Personally, I like all Dalaras' music, except the Latin CD (I don't like Latin music generally, except Santana), Yannena, rembetika (too heavy) and Tsitsanis (too Greek). :D

However, what I like less now is his voice. I find it too honeysweet, i.e. the voice is really "nice" to hear, it sounds like honey, but it lacks emotion and feeling. I think his voice has changed over the years, because when he was younger (in his 20's and 30's), he could sing with more emotion. I don't think it could be because of the type of songs he tends more to sing now (love songs?), as I felt the same way about his voice when he sang in the Olympics Closing Ceremony, that song about the refugees from Minor Asia. I thought it was a love song, it sounded so smooth. ;)

About your other point about the musicians ... I don't doubt there are still good musicians around, however like you said, you've got to look for them. That's why I find it interesting when someone who knows music in their country recommends you certain singers/artists. With the proliferation of artists in the market, and the music they push out on the radio and on the shelves, as well as the piracy, I wonder how those artists can even make a living nowadays.

About the retro ... I am not much into retro myself, for the simple fact that the singers I listen to now are still the same ones I used to listen to decades, decades and, er, decades ago. It is just a coincidence that their songs have very well stood the test of time and sound as contemporary now as back then. I even know a French singer/composer whose songs I find are even way ahead of our times. (He is a French music icon, of course. Michael, if you are interested, I will introduce you to him.) :)

Michael,

Well, how sensible those Austrian radio DJ's and hobby listener are, don't you find so? :razz:

About the criticism ... I think your comment is not valid in this case. I was under the impression you've already got a few live CD's and know how Dalaras sang on them, so since you can see which songs are in a new live CD, why would you buy it and dislike Dalaras? After all, he sings the same songs all the time, it's not as if he varies his concert repertoires that much. ;)

About the CD's and DVD's with other singers ... I used to buy a few CD's where Dalaras cooperated with other singers and also live CD's (like the Apo Kardias), and was quite disappointed with them (the other singers). I have stopped buying the cooperation CD's since.

Michael, you may be loaded with money, to buy CD's and skip listening like that. I am not. First, because Dalaras CD's are imports and therefore more expensive here. Second, because when there are other singers, the CD's are more expensive by at least $10 (plus sales taxes). So, on a cumulative basis, because Dalaras issues a lot of CD's, I prefer to use the extra money to buy CD's and DVD's from other singers which I like. Not to say that Elvis DVD's are so expensive ... The '68 Comeback DVD is now selling for $75 (plus taxes), the Aloha from Hawaii DVD $55 (plus taxes). But they are worth every cent. :razz:

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Nighthawk

I am not sure which Dalaras' music you referred to by elevators' music, which CD's are they?

Personally, I like all Dalaras' music, except the Latin CD (I don't like Latin music generally, except Santana), Yannena, rembetika (too heavy) and Tsitsanis (too Greek). :D

When I speak of elevator music, I mean all his recent music - and that's years and years already - ever since he gave up the helliniki psichi, whatever that may be, since it's subjective. Years ago, one time I went to Greece, a friend told me Dalaras was dead and I disagreed then. Only now I don't. His music is (to me) totally devoid of soul and so are the shows for middle-aged to older people I had the opportunity to watch on video. I can still listen to old Dalaras records and recognize their value. But I see no value, nothing original, nothing strong, in what he does now or the way he performs. I'm being very honest with you but, of course, it all comes down to taste.

Of course, the things I've listened to lately include Led Zeppelin, Norah Jones, JJ Cale and a few more. As for Greek music, I like something more "real", such as Psarantonis. A total different universe for very different people, I'll admit.

So, why do you still come here, you may ask. The answer is, this could get too boring if there were only the same people praising Dalaras and excusing him of everything and anything possible. Someone always must disagree, which is healthy - I'm just not sure that's a possibility for everyone in this forum.

Oh, and I learned to like the Latin record. There are a few very nice songs in it, in my opinion. :)

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Thanks for your honest opinion, Nighthawk. :)

I agree with you that it is healthy to express a different opinion than those of the big majority, or almost all, the forum members, and I think that is obvious from my own posts. My purpose is certainly not to put down Dalaras, but to have a soundboard for some constructive criticism, which can be positive, negative or neutral.

Who knows, if Dalaras reads this topic, he may see what some of his fans, ex-fans, not-so-fans think about him, his music and his performance. Maybe he will improve, who knows? It can only help, not hurt, if the criticism is honest. If he does not get feedback from the people who have been listening to him all those years, and/or are still listening to him, from whom will he get it? And those people are the ones who know him the best, I believe. :razz: My view is, if you care, you speak out. :D

I don't know the other singers you mention (except a little bit of Led Zeppelin), but why not? Life would be too boring if one were just to listen to one singer only, even if he is the best. :razz:

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:)

At the moment I just wanted to say that due to Natalie's and nighthawk's comments in this topic it seems to be more or less the first time that in this Forum starts a constructive (= based on substantial arguments) critical discussion about the musician Dalaras.

I still will have to read more carefully the last postings until I can write something by myself. For the time being I only wanted to encourage you to continue the discussion. It is interesting and refreshing. :D

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Just to continue ...

OK, a very different repertoire, like what? Any suggestions?

I think Dalaras already has something up his sleeve, as he said he is working on a CD with his own songs. And from a previous song he did (Ta tragoudia pou sou fteo ??), he proved to us that he was very good at that. Too bad that he did not write some more songs after that (or if he did, I don't know them). :)

Are there many singers who are also composers in Greece, either composers of lyrics or music? While we see a lot of French and even English singers compose their songs, this does not seem to be the norm in Greece. I find a singer is pretty dependent on the choice of songs given to you if you don't compose your own. :)

(Please tell me, Michael, does Parios compose a lot of his songs? I am quite interested to learn more about him since I heard him singing Magical Night in the Phos CD. Even thinking to buy his DVD's (the one with the best songs in his career and the one with the songs of Mikis). Why can't Dalaras issue DVD's like Parios, I don't understand that at all. :)

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