Natalie

Who are the Dalaras fans?

144 posts in this topic

Actually it seems like at the moment, most or all of the best songs are being written by the τραγουδοπιοί, litt. song-makers, who usually compose and sing, and often write (some of) the lyrics as well. Malamas, Papazouglou, Peridis, Pasxalidis, Ioannidis, Thivaios (who am i forgetting... sorry......). They also sing each others' and other people's songs. It looks like the generation(s) of Great Composers + Great Singers was succeeded by a generation of song-makers who are arguably less great at the separate parts of the job (composing, singing, etc.) but who, arguably, make more personal, individual songs.

A mirror of the changing times.

As for Dalaras and DVD, well, his opinion of video as medium is... barely polite. He says: "my job is to sing, not monkey about in front of a camera" (my translation).

And, Natalie, you are making a mistake: it's the singer who sings only songs of his own making who is most limited in his repertoire.

Apart from that, seeing that from the witches cauldron of the Arena Dalaras went on straight to the religious silence in which the Greeks watch ancient drama, I honestly think that those who complain that he ought to do " something else " are complaining for the sake of complaining - or suffering from that ubiquitous critic's disease: if Dalaras doesn't sing only and exactly what the critic wants to hear, then Dalaras ought to sing something else...

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Geske, you know I like you and maybe you don't know that, but I don't hold the critics in great respect.

But... to review and criticize is the right oif each and everyone. I like certain genres of music, prose, poetry, art, etc. So, it's only natural that I may like what Dalaras used to sing (and the different arrangements he used to have) and dislike - in the sense that it's as good as listening to Frank Purcell - what he chose to sing now. It is my right to say I believe he really should sing a very different repertoire. As it is his right not to do so. Complaining for the sake of complaining? That's so wrong... I mean every word I said. To me, Dalaras is dead - with the posibility of coming back to life. But it all comes down to taste, don't you agree?

I know a lot of you people love Dalaras for his character too, so it becomes harder to be as detached for many. But since I don't give a hoot about his character, I'm probably more able to listen to his songs and change my opinion accordingly to what he sings - if it touches my soul or if it has nothing to do with me (which has been the present case for a while). Just a thought, anyway...

As for him saying something like "my job is to sing, not monkey about in front of a camera", it only goes to show, in my humble opinion, but still my opinion, that he's grown old, very old and it confirms my views on his music and performances. There have been videos for ages, they've grown to sometimes become an art form and I find it stubborn and holding on to some kind of past thing that will never be here again (and which was never even that good) to think and say things like that. To me, it's not a sign of personality. But again, that's just my point of view to which I'm totally entitled.

I still like what Dalaras used to sing and his work is worth for that. He sang very good songs and he did sing them very well. Not now, not anymore - to me, of course. :)

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It's quite difficult to make the quotes within a posting but I will try my best so that it is more clear on which statements I refer. I will start from the last ones.

As for him saying something like "my job is to sing, not monkey about in front of a camera", it only goes to show, in my humble opinion, but still my opinion, that he's grown old, very old and it confirms my views on his music and performances. There have been videos for ages, they've grown to sometimes become an art form and I find it stubborn and holding on to some kind of past thing that will never be here again (and which was never even that good) to think and say things like that. To me, it's not a sign of personality. But again, that's just my point of view to which I'm totally entitled.

First of all, I think we should clarify that Dalaras' statement (and I assume nighthawk's comment too) seems to refer to video-clips and not to (simple) records of concerts on video. Concerning Dalaras' statement itself, I fully agree with its content (in case that he meant video-clips). The problem is that unfortunately in reality he did not keep what he announced in theory: There are various video clips in which he participates, for example the one of the song "Martyrio Mystirio" of his last CD: Even if I do not characterize Dalaras in this clip as monkey, at least his appearance there is something far away from what I would expect from an artist like him.

I do not agree at all with nighthawk's opinion about video(-clips), for reasons that have no specific relation with Dalaras. (To say it with one sentence: I think that music does not need any form of optical supplement or "support".)

Actually it seems like at the moment, most or all of the best songs are being written by the τραγουδοπιοί, litt. song-makers, who usually compose and sing, and often write (some of) the lyrics as well. Malamas, Papazouglou, Peridis, Pasxalidis, Ioannidis, Thivaios (who am i forgetting... sorry......). They also sing each others' and other people's songs. It looks like the generation(s) of Great Composers + Great Singers was succeeded by a generation of song-makers who are arguably less great at the separate parts of the job (composing, singing, etc.) but who, arguably, make more personal, individual songs.

A mirror of the changing times.

" most or all of the best songs"? Well, that's a matter of taste. I would say: " most or all of the songs that since some years are very popular for a certain group of listeners ". Personally, I do not belong to this group. The names mentioned by Geske represent in a perfect way the type of Greek music that does not interest me at all. :wow: Maybe that all these artists are ambitious but what they produce is (for me completely) boring (the music) or bad (most of their voices). I don't see the slightest connections between these song-makers and the artists (either composers, either singers) of the past.

There are some other song-makers too that I personally like more (I will refer to them below).

OK, a very different repertoire, like what? Any suggestions?

Concerning my opinion, it is already known, I think ;) :

Certain composers from which many of them unfortunately are not active any longer: Chrysovergis, Gartsos, Kargidis, Mousafiris, Nikolopoulos, Parios, Polykandriotis, Simos, Soukas, Spanos, Stergiou, Michalis Terzis, Vardis etc.

Dalaras with most of these composers collaborated either never or very seldom (and far away in the past). Exceptions are only Nikolopoulos and (especially because of hist last CD) Vardis.

In the same way I could mention various lyric-writers: Andrikakis, Chapsiadis, Elevtheriou, Falaras, Giatras, Kleftogiorgos, Nikos Loukas, Maragkoudaki, Lefteris and also Vasilis Papadopoulos, Sofi Pappa, Thomaidou, Tsotou etc.

Realizing the above list, I must say that it's unbelievable what Dalaras has ignored during all the last years. :mad:

I think Dalaras already has something up his sleeve, as he said he is working on a CD with his own songs. And from a previous song he did (Ta tragoudia pou sou fteo ??), he proved to us that he was very good at that. Too bad that he did not write some more songs after that (or if he did, I don't know them).  :)  

Yes, there were rumours about a CD with songs composed by Dalaras himself. "Gia ta tragoudia ki ego fteo" (I think that's the song you mean) is indeed a very beautiful one. A second one (which became very well-known) is "Sto idio ergo theates".

You need not worry that he did not write other songs. According to what I have read here in the Forum, he did; only he did not publish them.

Are there many singers who are also composers in Greece, either composers of lyrics or music?  While we see a lot of French and even English singers compose their songs, this does not seem to be the norm in Greece.

The answer concerning songwriters was partly already given by Geske. Some others are Pantelis Thalassinos and in a certain way also Andonis Vardis. (I say "in a certain way" because he also composes a lot for other singers and because almost never he writes the lyrics of his songs, whereas this is typical for the "song-maker"; o.k. the last one applies to Thalassinos too: He often does not write the lyrics himself.)

Moreover I would like to mention three completely different personalities:

- Dionysis Savvopoulos: perhaps Greece's oldest and most typical song-maker in the western sense (music, lyrics and performance all by himself; only a very small orchestra or simply a guitar as accompaniment of the voice). At least in former times Savvopoulos was very popular (especially by students etc.). (I do not know if this has changed.) My personal opinion: For me he was never of any interest. (Perhaps with exception of two songs: "Eida tin Anna kapote" and "Gennithika sti Saloniki".)

- Grigoris Bithikotsis: He was not only singer but also composer of many songs (and in some cases also their lyric-writer).

- Nikos Karvelas: Many people (especially here in the Forum) do not like him (and his songs) at all, but my opinion is different :) (even if I do not like all his songs). He became known as song-writer (and former husband) of Anna Vissi, but he also sings a lot of his songs by himself (with a quite poor voice).

Finally, let's not forget that song-makers (in the sense of: composer and lyric-writer and singer altogether) were also many artists of the rebetiko: Vamvakaris, Tsitanis (at least in certain cases) etc.

I find a singer is pretty dependent on the choice of songs given to you if you don't compose your own.  ;)

Well, I assume that a singer like Dalaras can influence in a quite strong way what he sings. ;)

(Please tell me, Michael, does Parios compose a lot of his songs? I am quite interested to learn more about him since I heard him singing Magical Night in the Phos CD. Even thinking to buy his DVD's (the one with the best songs in his career and the one with the songs of Mikis). Why can't Dalaras issue DVD's like Parios, I don't understand that at all.  :huh:

Yes, Parios composes a lot of songs and he also writes the lyrics for many songs (in this sense he is also one of the most famous song-makers). And he does it not only for himself but also for other artists (Alexiou, Dionysiou, Glykeria, Voskopoulos etc.). He remains one of the most interesting personalities in the field of Greek music, and I think especially for your "western ears" Parios could be a good choice because he often (not always) tends more to the "western" type of music - but without ignoring his Greek roots.

Concerning a DVD with Dalaras: Well, 2 or 3 are already available, and I am quite sure that others will follow in the future.

When I speak of elevator music, I mean all his recent music - and that's years and years already - ever since he gave up the helliniki psichi, whatever that may be, since it's subjective.

It is indeed subjective, but I think that this statement describes quite well the situation (as I see it). (With exception a number of songs of his last CD.)

His music is (to me) totally devoid of soul and so are the shows for middle-aged to older people I had the opportunity to watch on video.

With the "shows" (the way Dalaras appears on stage) I have no problem (as far as I can judge). There seems to be no special show and this is very good. :)

Oh, and I learned to like the Latin record. There are a few very nice songs in it, in my opinion.  :)

Especially a lot of "helliniki psichi". :rolleyes:

Personally, I like all Dalaras' music, except the Latin CD (I don't like Latin music generally, except Santana), Yannena, rembetika (too heavy) and Tsitsanis (too Greek). :D

Latin CD: I agree with you, but for different reasons: I like Latin music (although I do not know very much about it), but I never understood why we needed Dalaras to perform it. It is something strange to Dalaras' musical roots and backgrounds and to the "helliniki psichi". (The Greek imitations of Latin music - unfortunately also performed by Dalaras - are of poorest quality.) As experiment (one, two original Latin songs) it would be o.k. But giving Latin so much attention (and neglecting so much of Greek's music), that's wrong.

Yannena: I fully agree.

Rembetika and Tsitsanis: I do not agree at all. Especially in the heavy songs Dalaras is (or was?) fantastic! And yes, of course Tsitsanis represents the typical Greek music. (As Elvis Presley represents Rock and Roll and perhaps because of this I don't like Elvis. :razz::razz: )

However, what I like less now is his voice. I find it too honeysweet, i.e. the voice is really "nice" to hear, it sounds like honey, but it lacks emotion and feeling. I think his voice has changed over the years, because when he was younger (in his 20's and 30's), he could sing with more emotion. I don't think it could be because of the type of songs he tends more to sing now (love songs?), as I felt the same way about his voice when he sang in the Olympics Closing Ceremony, that song about the refugees from Minor Asia. I thought it was a love song, it sounded so smooth.  ;)  

I am not satisfied with Dalaras voice as it can be heard on his last CD ("Sta tragoudia pou sou grafo") and I have written about this in another topic. But apart from this, I do not think that Dalaras' voice has less emotion than in the past. Maybe that it sounds more tired, broken etc. than in former times (at least that was my critics concerning his last CD), but I do not think that this has to do with a lack of emotion or feeling. To me, for example on the last CD, there is a lot of emotion and feeling (in the music, in the lyrics and also in Dalaras' voice), but I missed the ability in his voice to transfer this to the listener in a technically satisfying way.

Surely Dalaras' voice is in a certain respect "honeysweet". But on the other hand I think that it is primarily a question of the type of songs he performs. For example the song of the Closing Ceremony of the Olympic Games: For me there was nothing honeysweet, smooth, soft (whatever) it was an outstanding example for Dalaras "oriental" (part of his) voice. The problem that his voice may become too honeysweet I see more in performing certain western songs or greek songs of western style, especially when the instrumentation is too "sweet". This applies for example to certain songs on the CD "Tribute to Mikis Theodorakis" or to the CD with the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra. Here some songs simply sound like "kitsch" (trash). But perhaps that's not really the "fault" of Dalaras' voice but of this completely failed instrumentation.

Well, how sensible those Austrian radio DJ's and hobby listener are, don't you find so?  :razz:

Yes, a lot. :razz:

I was under the impression you've already got a few live CD's and know how Dalaras sang on them, so since you can see which songs are in a new live CD, why would you buy it and dislike Dalaras? After all, he sings the same songs all the time, it's not as if he varies his concert repertoires that much.   ;)

I buy many CDs (not only of Dalaras but in general) more for the reason of collecting (and for being able to judge what is recorded on them). So it may happen that I have a CD and do not listen to it at all or only very, very seldom. This applies to most of the live recordings I have.

Michael, you may be loaded with money, to buy CD's and skip listening like that.

No I am not loaded with money but because today's productions (whoever the singer may be) for me it is almost inevitable to skip certain songs on a CD because there aren't any longer records which are "acceptable" for me from the first to the last song. ;)

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Well, Michael, I may not agree with everything you say, namely regarding videoclips - it's not a question of music not needing a visual support, it's a matter of the entirety of the thing, including the images. But I grant you, some like 90% of the videos could perfectly well vanish from the screens and it wouldn't make a difference; but then, there are still 10% left and they make it worthwhile. The phrase "monkeying around in front of the camera" - and still he has made some videos, huh? - feels like he's just not getting it. Sound and vision are two different senses contributing to the whole, none is superior to the other. Music and videoclips are two different sides of a coin and of course the music side may exist without the videoclip side, but what for really, if it can be interesting? It's a bit like saying "I refuse to use a computer, I'll always stick to typewriters".

Anyway, yes, I may not agree on that but I must say you do seem to know a lot about Greek music, that's a fact! :)

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About the video-clips ... I find them totally uninteresting, for any singer. I don't really need to see the kind of pictures they put in them to listen to the songs. It is not the matter of monkeying or not, it bugs me, if I do watch them, that the videomakers seem to pay more attention to put other pictures than the singer's.

However, although I saw Dalaras only once, I agree with Nighthawk that his performance could be a little more jazzed up. Dalaras, to me, is not a performer. He is a singer. And you could just put a CD player on the stage, I would not see any difference. Sorry to be blunt.

About the limitation on a singer's own songs ... It can be as limited or as wide ranging as the singer/composer' s own potential for creativity. We have seen some singer/composers composing not only for themselves, but for others too, like Parios, for example :D.(Thanks for all the excellent info, Michael.)

I am nicely surprised by the innumerable songwriters and composers in Greece. Surely the singers do have many choices. :razz:

Whether Dalaras can influence the songs he wants to sing or not, he may well have quite an influence on the lyrics or music, i.e. to request changes be made to them and to choose them. However, I seem to remember some discussion in the past where it was said that Dalaras may not have so much choice in the songs because of the record company. Another thing about his own songs that he said in the radio interview, if I remember correctly, was that when there were great songwriters like Manos Loizos, etc. , they did not want to accept his songs. :huh: I don't understand how that can be when Parios has been writing songs too.

About the Latin songs ... I also think that the fact that Dalaras spent so much time on them is a little disappointing for someone who is supposedly the "national" Greek singer. Yes, a few would be OK, but he has been too much involved in them. To top that, he does not even have "le Latin look". :razz: Imagine my dismay when I found the other day a CD from a young Greek singer. I was so enthused to find a Greek CD in a store, until I saw that all his songs were Latin songs. :blink:

About the honeysweet voice ... (Michael) I trust your personal opinion is what you feel about Dalaras' voice, however I have a different opinion. I have tested that for more than a year already, as I was not listening to Dalaras for a month, then listen, then not listen for two months, then listen ... Maybe the fact that I don't understand Greek makes my ears more attuned to the voice only. In all fairness to Dalaras, I have tried to see if other singers have the same kind of honeysweet voice, but could not because understanding the lyrics hampered me a lot in the process. I know that Engelbert has a honeysmooth voice also, but his voice leaves a warm feeling, not a feeling of emptiness like Dalaras' - to me :confused: .

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So Natalie... (and sorry for my very bad English...)

If you dont like his voice, his performance ect, why do you spend so much time writing about him? I think that you are trying to find an artist to love, an obviously, Dalaras is very far from it. I think that you should keep the possitive things from him and not bother further.

As about me, I like him a lot because I have lived some very strong experiences connected with him...Anyway, i listen to him since i was a child (i am 24 now) and i think i know him well enough.

I think that the main problem is that although he is not that old, he is starting to loose his voice. That began about 10 years ago, and now, i believe, he is far away from what he was.

So (although that wouldn t make me happy at all) i think it would be better for him to quit singing soon... He has already left us a lot of great gifts! (and me, personally, i will keep them forever)

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On the first place I would say that everybody could express his opinion and it's appreciated. On the other hand to bring up such an issue concerning his voice, sorry but I believe that included enough risk!!! Who is responsible for judging his voice? While all the places that he choose to give a performance become crowded up to now!!! Probably that means that he is accepted from the majority of the people and taking such a decision to "quit" nowadays will probably disappoint more than appreciated. Especially if you consider who are constitute the musical scene in our country!!!! However the total decision will take by him(that's for sure) and personally I believe at his wisdom. :D

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;);););):pity::(:mad::mad::mad:

Is this really a topic about Dalaras fans? I doubt it.

Το σκέφτηκα πάρα πολύ πριν αποφασίσω να γράψω. Δεν θα ήθελα σε καμμία περίπτωση να αμφισβητηθεί το πιστεύω μου περί ελευθερίας του λόγου σ`αυτό το forum, ούτε περιμένω να σταματήσουν κάποιοι να γράφουν αυτά που γράφουν.Απλά θα ήθελα να πω, πως βλέπω αυτά που γράφονται.

Αλοίμονο στον καλλιτέχνη που έχει τέτοιους fans!

Ξεχνάτε κάποιοι ένα πράγμα, δεν σας κάλεσε κανείς. Δεν είναι κακό να μην είστε-fans εννοώ-.<<<ΔΗΛΩΣΤΕ ΤΟ ΚΑΙ ΣΩΣΤΕ ΤΟ ..>>>Δικαίωμά σας είναι άλλωστε. ¨Εχει τόσα sites όπου μπορείτε να πάτε και να κάνετε chat .

Είναι όμως πολύ κουραστικό, πιστέψτε με και πολλές φορές ανεβάζει και την πίεση B) κάποιων μελών που μπαίνουν για λίγο στο forum του καλλιτέχνη που αγαπούν και διαβάζουν topics που ξεχειλίζουν μιζέρια, κακία, ξερολισμό............

Τι έχουμε πάθει τελικά, ανοίγουμε το στόμα μας και χωρίς καμμία απολύτως βάση αρχίζουμε τις επιφανειακές κριτικές, τι θα θέλαμε ΕΜΕΙΣ,τις μεγάλες κουβέντες-αυτό μάλιστα το ακούω από τότε που μπήκα σ`αυτό το forum- δηλ. δεν πάει καλά η φωνή του , πρέπει να σταματήσει.........

Καλά θα κάνατε εσείς να σταματήσετε, αφήστε μας να ξέρουμε και μείς κάτι αγαπητοί ξερόλες.

Και δεν μιλώ σαν fan -δεν μου αρέσει καθόλου η λέξη. Μιλώ σαν ένα μέλος που επί 34 χρόνια παρακολουθώ, θαυμάζω και αγαπώ τον συγκεκριμμένο καλλιτέχνη.Επίσης εξακολουθώ ακόμα να βλέπω και να ακούω ΠΟΛΥ ΚΑΛΑ.

Στους περισσότερους από εμάς ο κ. Νταλάρας εξακολουθεί να χαρίζει ανεπανάληπτες στιγμές ευτυχίας. Οι τελευταίες του εμφανίσεις απέδειξαν ότι η φωνή του εξακολουθεί να είναι ΤΕΛΕΙΑ-και δεν μιλώ μόνο για την θεατρική παράσταση.Γιαυτούς που πήραν την ζυγαριά και ζυγίζουν η μετράνε τις οκτάβες, τους λέω να πάψουν να ψάχνουν το δένδρο όταν μπροστά τους υπάρχει ένα υπέροχο δάσος .

Είμαστε όλοι ευγνώμονες που υπάρχει και θέλουμε να χαιρόμαστε την παρουσία του στα μουσικά πράγματα της χώρας μας για όσα χρόνια το θέλει εκείνος. Μακάρι να είναι πολλά. :D

Με αγάπη και εκτίμηση σ`όλους όσοι αγαπάνε πραγματικά τον Γ. Νταλάρα.

ΡΕΝΑ :razz:

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Θα ήθελα ν' αναφέρω κάτι που λέει ο Κρέων στον Οιδίποδα στην παράσταση που κάποιοι από μας (οι τυχεροί) παρακολουθήσαμε: «Δεν μ' αρέσει να μιλήσω όταν δεν ξέρω».

Ιδιαίτερα όταν πρόκεται για τον Νταλάρα, μου φαίνεται ότι σε πάρα πολλούς αρέσει να μιλάνε όταν ΔΕΝ ξέρουν...

May I quote Creon, speaking to Oidipous, in the play some of us (the lucky ones) have recently seen: "I do not like to speak when I do not know."

It seems to me that, particularlarly where Dalaras is concerned, a large number of people love to talk while not knowing.

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It seems that many of us discuss Dalaras performance while considering singing as his job. The question is: is it a job or a vocation? If this is a job, then there are many young (and old) singers-performers on the contemporary music sceen who outperform him, and are much better then him in keeping up-to-date with the trends.

Many of the most radical critics in this thread consider him not adequate any more: they say he is old and much behind: voice not fresh anymore, few new songs, etc. This might be true for a job that can be done more efficiently by someone younger - by the way, those critics seem especially knowledgeable in music in professional sense, maybe they are even involved in making music... So, they might be right in complaining about his job performance in comparison with many other singers?

Others argue: why his concerts still gather such a large audience ? Well, maybe the audience consists of many people like myself who see singing as a vocation, God's gift, and Dalaras as someone unique who has it: no matter if the voice is not that strong with the years, if he keeps singing old songs? We love his old songs as long as he still loves singing them. Whatever the critics say they might be right in single points (again, if judging singing as a job), and then, I don't know much about music to argue - but in one thing I strongly disagree: about "elevator music" - if this is the same as "wallpaper music". I believe the person who mentioned elevator music then admitted that he is not Dalaras fan at all.

It explains his opinion: he does not feel any connection with the singer to experience his emotions. For me (and other Dalaras fans) it's just the opposite - we might put into the "elevator" category the music this critic enjoys.

So, it's all again question of taste. Music scene is fortunately so large - everyone can find something to enjoy. I wish good luck to everyone who does not like Dalaras or stopped liking him, or whatever: you have plenty of choice. We all are only human (Dalaras included), we all change and evolve and want something new. When Dalaras includes in his repertoire Latin songs or Ladino songs or Hebrew songs - isn't he doing the same? He likes doing new things, and he has also this ability to sing old songs anew each time because it is not his job but work of love. So, it looks to me that this type of discussion has come to a dead end: this is actually a site for those who love Dalaras and find connection with his art (we are also allowed not to like some parts of it which I explain by that he is too much for most us to accept everything he does). But those who don't feel that connection to the extent of calling his music "elevator music" better find another site.

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Oh, wha, wee, I'm wounded and bleeding to death! You're so wrong! That seems to me like, if I may be so bold as to put it that way, a tad fanatic. This is not (and nothing anywhere states that) a site for unconditional Dalaras fans. I happen to love his works up to a certain time - and I do hope he will go on singing his older songs! - and I also happen to consider his last years as years of elevator music or wallpaper music, whatever you may wish to call it. So what? Is anybody at all beyond criticism? So, you're right, I'm not a Dalaras fan... I'm someone who manages to listen to the different things he does and has done and keep a totally open mind, according to my own taste - but that's so obvious!

I thing singing is both a call and a job. One thing does not exclude the other. He just happens to have something he likes as a job. Great for him.

As for his voice, which has been criticized in some posts, I've nothing against it. It's his voice. If it may sound a little too mellow, I guess that must be accordingly to the sort of songs he sings.

Finally, regarding the video music scene: even though most of it is worthless and even though music, can - and must - of course be listened to without them, they're merely another pieece of the puzzle. Not completing the whole puzzle may somehow be... erm... not so good. But it seems like he has made some videos. Now what???? I haven't watched them but I'm guessing they mustn't be above average, which is a shame. Several very well known artists have generally made very good, creative, artistic, videos... Take a look at what The Prodigy, David Bowie or Tom Waits (and even The Cure or the U2, to a lesser extent) have done, for example. Some videos are a feast for the eyes and a completion - not necessarily needed, naturally, it's a choice - for the music itself.

Best regards to all. :D

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Είναι ευτυχία για την χώρα να έχει καλλιτέχνες και πολίτες σαν τον Νταλάρα. Τον παρακολουθώ 23 χρόνια. Δεν με απογοήτευσε . Τώρα για τους fun ,ουδέν σχόλιον. Απλώς να πω πως καλό είναι να μην πιστεύει κανείς στις φήμες. Είναι το μεγαλύτερο λάθος.

Όσον αφορά στη φωνή, δεν βιώσατε την εμπειρία των φετινών παραστάσεων. Ήταν ολοκάθαρη, φρέσκια, ήταν η ΦΩΝΗ! Θεμιτή η κριτική αλλά μην μας τρελάνετε κιόλας. Αν πάλι κάποιοι αυτό επιδιώκετε σας λέω πως έχουμε φοβερές αντοχές. Μία συμβουλή επιτρέψτε μου να δώσω. Προσπαθήστε να γνωρίσετε τον μουσικό κόσμο του Νταλάρα ουσιαστικά. Προσπαθήστε να επικοινωνήσετε μαζί του. Αν δεν μπορέσετε να κατανοήσετε πηγαίνετε να του πείτε τις αντιρρήσεις σας. Ο άνθρωπος επειδή -ευτυχώς- έχει αυτογνωσία δεν θα πάθει κατάθλιψη από αυτά που θα ακούσει.

Και θα κλείσω λέγοντας πως η μεγάλη παρεξήγηση με το θέμα <<Νταλάρας>> ξεκινά από την υπερβολική του σεμνότητα.

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Για να σας πω την αλήθεια δεν μπήκα στη διαδικασία να διαβάσω τα προηγούμενα μηνύματα απ΄αυτό της ΡΕΝΑΣ κι αυτό γιατί τα αγγλικά μου δεν είναι και τα καλύτερα και δεν θα ήθελα να βγάλω εσφαλμένα συμπεράσματα.Αν κατάλαβα καλά απ'όσα έγραψε η Ρένα είναι ότι υπάρχει μια διαφοροποίηση σε κάποια μέλη σε σχέση με την αντοχή και την ποιότητα της φωνής του Νταλάρα.

Αυτό που έχω να πω είναι ότι απλά συμφωνώ τόσο με τη Ρένα όσο και την Geske και την EKOSTEL στα όσα λένε για τη φωνή του Νταλάρα και πιστεύω ότι για πολλά χρόνια ακόμα θα γεμίζει τα αυτιά , το μυαλό και την καρδιά μας.

Αυτά... :D

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You'll have to excuse me but writing in Grek means a lot of people who've been stating points of view here won't understand a thing. Without meaning to teach some morals to anyone, or some politeness even, I do remember when we get to the main page of the site and we click on the English banner this is where we're taken to... Much obliged. :D

EDIT: I used Babelfish and despite its horrid translation I managed to understand most of what you said except for a couple of words it could not translate.

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Shut up. You don't like me so you interpret the things I say in any way you wish - subjective and controversial. And I've said more than I should. But I can tell you (and I'm not making anything up) there are a few people who, like me, do not understand Greek and dislike the fact that they're somehow being thrown away by the far too many posts in Greek. What is that thing "it's a forum about a Greek singer so it's supposed to be in Greek"? So basic! I'm telling you and others what some people, not just me, think but haven't said. If you can't understand something as simple as that, maybe you should go back to school, where they take care of rotten brats like yourself. Where are you from, anyway? Don't you even have the guts and the manliness to have a flag or something about yourself? What are you, some ghost? I'm guessing, just guessing, you probably are a migrant Greek maybe in the States - that, I'm sorry to say, makes you tacky and nationalistically silly. Anyway, quite frankly, mind your own business if you know how. :D

EDIT: I'm not looking for fights with anyone else, ok? It's just this Hristaki character, whoever he may be, he sounds like a 5 year old and behaves like he own the forums or something.

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We were talking about Dalaras fans, I think.

I would like to say something about the Dalaras fans I've personally met through this forum.

They are the most amazingly gentle, well-mannered group of people I've ever met anywhere. And they are so heterogenous that apart from their love for Dalaras, these gentle manners are practically the only thing I can find in common to all of them (exceptions are barely enough to confirm the rule). This is most especially true of the members in Greece. Next to them, I very often feel like a gangling, loud-mouthed, uncouth barbarian. But they also manage to make me forget that feeling.

Many of these doves can turn into tigers when someone is being not-nice-enough to a person they love.

N.B. This gentleness makes this forum an uncongenial place for people who love argument en controversy, rather than conversation and agreement.

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Nightwahk:

This is certainly a nationalistic site (but not chauvinistic): Dalaras is a part of Greece, and Greece is a part of him. Whoever is his fan, knows at least a little Greek - if you don't even have desire to understand the poetry, even though it might be secondary to the music, how can you judge? His music is distinctively Greek, and maybe that's why people who are tired of musical globalization are attracted to him. We come to this site to discuss songs and look for concert news, to look for translations, and just chat, but not to try to throw him from the pedestal, or even to praise him. Let's leave this to the news media. If there are songs you like, you can share your thoughts or ask questions. If there are no such songs, why have a label "Dalaras addicted" and visit here at all?

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many people who speak or think in a negative way about Dalaras (as personality). As far as I can see, the main points why people do criticize Dalaras are: that he is primarily interested in making money, that he tries to interfere in a lot of topics (especially politicial ones) only to have attention and to become even more rich than he already is. Some people say that Dalaras is arrogant.

Hi Guys let me state this:

as the evidence speaks for itself

if Dalaras was only in it only for the money,

He NEVER would have Participated in so many projects, good causes, colloborations, fundraisers etc., if it were all for the money.

The man made his Money a Long time ago, and from there was singing alot for Charity Contributions. CYPRUS is ONe Big Project to mentio from many others I know this because I was there and both he (Dalaras & the Promoter) said he donated his time effort for this cause (FREE without Dalaras being Paid) !!!

When they asked him to sing for the Greek students here at the University of Michigan a few years back to help raise funds and keep HELLENISM Alive for the Greek Classics, he said he would do it but to bear in mind the Expenses for the Orchestra neeeded to be paid.

How many times has he appeared as a Guest Artist in the past and did so Voluntarily on someone elses CD? almost as many Solo Albums he has personally recorded.

and if he has made some extra money from his Last Personal Tours

with Marinella, Remos, or whatever well then why Not Good for him.

I mean it is his time and work Right!!

and he should be compensated for his performance.

I mean where is it written he should sing for free now if he's made money from it in the past?

I don't hear Madanna or Yanni, going on a Long Tour or Janet jackson, Streisand, Cher, etc.,

performing for free so why should Dalaras not get paid on a Regular TOur?

COme on people

to state he's only in for the money is wrong

only when you work on a Long Touring time should your efforts be compensated But not on worthy Causes as hes done so in the past.

:D

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I am not a fan. I still find the stuff Dalaras used to make before he became a singer of music for elevators very good. The real McCoy, y'know. But I'm certainly not his fan, no I have no patience for Greek Sinatras, I leave that for the old aged, sorry. Just a word directly from hell.  :D

:razz:

I have been reading the posts from the very 1st thread posted on this topic and have followed it along. And though I try to listen & try to understand peoples critics and point of views, I fail to see yours Nighthawk.

In fact as i re-read it again, the only thing coming from you is Trashy Bashing and quite frankly it is OFFENSIVE!!!.

I'm not even certain as to why you even posted in here at all on this topic when you clearly state, "You are not a Dalaras fan and don't like his music" and Further to add it's only 'Elevator musIc' is pure Insulting to me and has a Fan AND definately NOT Constructive neither.

If you don't like Dalaras or his latest works, dont bother to write, cause what you're doing is Bashing and NOT COnstructive Critixism. And not too mention quite Abusive too.

And as Michaeal said and I will agree with him,

Dalaras last CD was not too bad, there are some good songs on there even though he may sing softer now and not as loud as did before.

Nevertheless, its still a GOOD CD and features some Great songs in it!!!.

The Asphaltos CD also has some reasonaly a Great Amount of Good songs on there Too and his voice is just as SUPERB there too as it is HONEYSWEET>

so if you don't like it DON"T listen to it

But dont tell us remarks again its only good for Elevator Music

otherwise

STAY Out of here

don't want to hear your slander

B)

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Though vitaly's posting is addressed to nighthawk, I would like to say a few things because her comment contains a number of elements that have a direct connection with the title of the topic ("Who are the Dalaras fans?")

Nightwahk:

This is certainly a nationalistic site (but not chauvinistic): Dalaras is a part of Greece, and Greece is a part of him.

Using the word "nationalistic", I would be careful because I think that in English it has the same bad meaning as in German. So I hope that this is not a "nationalistic" (= "εθνικιστική" !!? :blink:) site. :D (I have no idea what could be a more suitable expression.

Concerning the controverse about the language I wanted to use exactly this term:

Demanding from everyone to use here in the Forum the Greek language would be nationalistic (in a bad sense). And demanding from everyone to use the English language is imperialistic. I like neither the one nor the other. (So, to make it clear: In this respect I completely disagree with nighthawk's attitude.)

Nightwahk:

Whoever is his fan, knows at least a little Greek - if you don't even have desire to understand the poetry, even though it might be secondary to the music, how can you judge?

Hmmm, I am not sure! On the one hand, yes: Understanding the lyrics of a song is of course very useful, interesting and maybe in some cases even necessary to "comprehend" fully a song. I for myself started learning Greek because of the ambition and the desire to understand the lyrics of Greek songs. And I would not like to miss the knowledge of these lyrics too. On the other hand: If I were not attracted by the music itself (including the sound of the voices etc.) I surely would not have started to learn the (Greek) language. So I think, that there is an "ability" of the listener to judge a song by its music (alone). And as far as a I can see from this site (the interest for the translations of songs etc.), there seem to be many listeners ("fans", whatever) of Dalaras who do no understand the lyrics. So obviously music, voices etc. can attract the attention even without understanding the language. Or think of the sudden interest of Greeks for Latin songs after Dalaras published the album. :razz: (I don't think that so many Greeks were able [or interested] in understanding the lyrics he sings. B) )

Nightwahk:

His music is distinctively Greek, and maybe that's why people who are tired of musical globalization are attracted to him.

:( I fear that it is exactly the other way around: Dalaras' music is to a great part no longer "distinctively Greek" and (at least as far as I see) he became internationally popular especially from the time on when his repertoire became globalized and often with songs that can be categorized as a type of "world music" or "easy listening". (nighthawk would say "elevator music". ;) )

We come to this site to discuss songs and look for concert news, to look for translations, and just chat, but not to try to throw him from the pedestal, or even to praise him. Let's leave this to the news media. If there are songs you like, you can share your thoughts or ask questions. If there are no such songs, why have a label "Dalaras addicted" and visit here at all?

I will not deal in detail with this part of the posting. There were already other statements from other members, going into the same direction but by far more extreme than this one by vitaly; so it would be unfair towards vitaly to choose exactly her words for a critical remark. But for constituting a typology of Dalaras-fans this statement is quite typical for a certain category of them: Those fans who fully support their idol and defend it against every critics. :pity:

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Ok, this is something I've noticed a long time ago. Very much unfortunately, in fact. A lot of people in this site are clearly fanatics. You know, I have lived in Greece in fact and I do understand a little Greek (although I have much, much more to do than learning enough Greek to understand the posts, what about you learning other not so obvious languages?) and I'm interested in Greece - on the other hand I know what the Greeks are like quite a bit: their good things and their bad things. Blind nationalism is one of those bad things and that's all I'll say about it.

If this were a free forum at all, criticizing the path Dalaras has been following wouldn't be seen as pure bashing. But you see it as you want it. It's all up to you, who cares, anyway?

So, this is not a nice place. And do not be so self-conceited as to think I'm the one who's not nice while all you lot are so very right. The nazis wouldn't have thought it differently. Sorry.

So... I'm outta here for a very long vacation. We simply belong in different dimensions, I'm afraid.

People like Marijke, Olga, Geske and Michael, as well as anybody else who doesn't think I'm some stupid basher, are always welcome to contact me through my email. :D

Goodbye and there's no need for rejoycing publicly cause I'm not going to bother reading.

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Thanks, Michael

I appreciate your reply very much - this topic is so interesting in many aspects, and we should also thank to Nighthawk for irritating people to get involved.

Actually, there are at least two different aspects: 1) original topic: who we are, and how we are similar and different in our musical tastes in general.

2) Dalaras: why we listen to him and what we expect from him.

The 1st topic would take much more time and effort than the 2nd: I agree with Geeske that there is no easily identifiable trend, but by talking about "we" we already acknowledge that it exists. Forum members are all of very different backgrounds and ages, and on the other hand, my husband keeps asking when I am listening to Greek songs: "Is it again that indian music?" - although we grew up in the same place. So, hopefully, this discussion will continue.

As for the 2nd topic: I will have to talk about myself - sorry - since this is a person I know the best. As an introduction, I would like to say that this forum is a model of human society and our misunderstandings: how it is difficult to express ourselves and also to understand what others mean. Michael said my opinion about Dalaras on this forum is a typical fan adoration for an idol. There is no offense: just misunderstanding. I actually consider myself an opposite of a typical fan who idealizes a person (might be a singer, a writer, a politician), and then feels disillusioned after having discovered that the idol is a human being. These are often fans who annoy the person who they idolize by requesting his attention (he is tired after the concert, leave him alone!). We love art (music and other) because it makes us better humans - so, it is not enough that the performer gives us all the best of his soul for 2hrs, than again and again, we want him to be a perfect person in other aspects of his life. By the way, he has a family as ordinary people, must pay his bills, has his health problems.

On the other hand, there are many examples in history of a great artist being a difficult person with his family and society. The talent those people have might sometimes be a gift too heavy to wear 7/24. But we want him to be perfect, better than ourselves. What, he expressed political views different from ours? He wants to be paid well for his work (which is very different from 9 -5)? So, I am an unconditional fan in that I accept Dalaras as is because I respect his talent as long as he is true to it and to himself - I will be disappointed when he starts pretending being someone else. And if he even does it once in a while, I will forgive him - not because he is an idol, but because he is a human, he is allowed his ups and downs.

The main thing for me is that he does not treat his music as a commodity just for sale: he loves singing, and he sings those songs he loves. I can tell it by seeng him in concert and listening on CDs. I am sure Michael knows what he is talking about when he says Dalaras lost much of his charm for him, etc. I only know Dalaras for few years, and many Cds I listen to are old. Maybe, he adapted to Western style a little - that might be true, but he is still himself: that's what he likes to do now. Yes, he is globalized: his audience are from all parts of the world. That's real world: Chaim Mosche sings Dalaras, Dalaras sings Hebrew songs. He is still always recognizable as a Greek singer and Dalaras - while what I meant by globalized singers was actually "interchangeable".

Sorry about ambiguity with "nationalistic" - although I said it is different from chauvinistic, when "my" language and nationality goes first. You cannot remove his best songs from the Greek soil. And that makes also another point: about the lyrics. Well, not necessarily people who look for translations on this forum are those unwilling to learn Greek: just the opposite - we are looking for bilingual texts (thanks, Geeske, Fernando_and_Rita and others!). I agree that music goes first, but language has a music of its own. They just intertwine. The melody of a song is certainly defined by the language - music of songs is geographical and linguistic, that's why it is different in different countries. English speaking people create different melodies from Russian or Greek. (well, it's just a theory). At the same time, I completely understand people who don't want to be distracted by words from music... However, for some reason regulars on this forum have picked up more or less Greek anyway...

In no case my opinion here means that people should not criticize - let's just not to go to extremes. It is still mostly about feelings and emotions - very subjective. For that, what is essential? not strong voice (unless for an opera singer), but connection of singer and the audience. When there is no connection, it is not necessarily the singer to blame.

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Αλοίμονο στον καλλιτέχνη που έχει τέτοιους fans!

Ξεχνάτε κάποιοι ένα πράγμα, δεν σας κάλεσε κανείς. Δεν είναι κακό να μην είστε-fans εννοώ-.<<<ΔΗΛΩΣΤΕ ΤΟ ΚΑΙ ΣΩΣΤΕ ΤΟ  ..>>>Δικαίωμά σας είναι άλλωστε. ¨Εχει τόσα sites όπου μπορείτε να πάτε  και να κάνετε  chat .

Είναι όμως πολύ κουραστικό, πιστέψτε με και πολλές φορές ανεβάζει και την πίεση  :) κάποιων μελών που μπαίνουν για λίγο στο forum του καλλιτέχνη που αγαπούν και διαβάζουν topics που ξεχειλίζουν μιζέρια, κακία, ξερολισμό............

Τι έχουμε πάθει τελικά, ανοίγουμε το στόμα μας και χωρίς καμμία απολύτως βάση αρχίζουμε τις επιφανειακές κριτικές, τι θα θέλαμε ΕΜΕΙΣ,τις μεγάλες κουβέντες-αυτό μάλιστα  το ακούω από τότε που μπήκα σ`αυτό το forum-  δηλ. δεν πάει καλά η φωνή του , πρέπει να σταματήσει.........

Καλά θα κάνατε εσείς  να σταματήσετε, αφήστε μας να ξέρουμε και μείς κάτι αγαπητοί ξερόλες.

Maybe the way i said it made some people really angry .. BUT

you shouldn t jump to conclusions and accuse anyone just because he says something you don t like- whithout even knowing his motives..

So, to make it clear for you, on just a few words: I am a fan of Dalaras!

And a great one, i can say. I adore his voice and even now i never miss one of his performances ( as most of you people in the forum..).

I believe he is a very gifted person. For me he is magical!

Apart of that, we are friends- you know. He knew me before i was even born and i always loved him - you can t even imagine how much!! (and he knows that well..)

Thats why i want the best for him and only the best. I don t say that he can t sing wright now (in the opposite, he is doing very well) - but for a Dalaras this is not 100%. And you know , dear Rena, this is not only MY stupid opinion...

So, i find it really silly that you call me all these names!

And you should know, i dont need your permission or even your INVITATION to be here .. These hysterical reactions don t touch me... sorry.

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