The New Cd Rating

[Christo 9]

Hi Folks

First let me say Welcome to the new site and glad to have every new and present dalaras fans here with us. The site is good and will take some time getting use to.  

   Now here is my question to you all:

On the new cd of Dalaras " H Asphaltos Pou Trexi",   1.  What is your favorite song on there and why?  2.  Whats your favorite Zembekiko on there and Why?

Mine is;  I like the song Methismeni Varka, "Because it has a good upbeat tempo like a 'Hasoposerviko' and it also has a good jingle with good lyrics and is very lively.  And my favorite Zembekiko on there is: Nychterida only because Dalaras sings this song with so much passion (pathos), and has lots of strong presence full of emotion, mixtures and blues. And that is what he sings best!  This song is Definately a good composition of artwork in and out the recording production!

 

[Michael 2]

First of all I must confess that I was quite diasappointed by the CD "I Asfaltos pou trexei" and (at least up to know) I did not find more than one or two songs I am convinced of completely (as it happens to me with many many other songs of Dalaras).

Perhaps I can explain this a little bit by some titles mentioned by Christo and Geeske:

- At "Nychterida" indeed the voice of Dalaras is very beautiful but the song has no melody that touches me. (I am not even able to keep it in my mind after hearing it.) That concerns especially the first part of the song but also the part with the zeimpekiko. (Moreover I think that these two parts do not fit.)

- "Methysmeni varka":  Yes, I also find it lively and with good tempo. But the orchestration to my mind is very colourless. And the melody: Not bad but nothing special I would say.

- "Me tis kardias ton chtypo" is a song I like. It is one of my favourite titles on this CD. And I agree with Geeske when he writes that here the orchestration is perfect. (I only have a certain problem with Dalaras' voice in the introduction of the song [where he sings without instruments]. But that's a detail perhaps I will refer to another time.)

- The other song I would call my favourite is "Ta fantasmata". Why? It is a true "laiko" song (a style which the last years is neglected almost completely in Greek music): Melody, tempo, orchestration, lyrics - here is all "authentic".

(And I must admit that I did not expect such a song written by Manolis Famellos.)

- A very beautiful zeimpekiko is the refrain of the song "O palios stratiotis". But obviously to show that they keep some distance to an "ordinary" laiko song (that is at least my suspicion) Macheritsas composed and Dalaras orchestrated the rest of the song unfortunately in a completely different (to my mind quite colourless) way.

[Geske 37]

This is getting more and more interesting, guys - at least for me!

You see, unlike you, I am unable to like or dislike any 'authenticity' in a Greek song, because I simply have not a clue as to what is authentic and what is not. A friend of mine introduced me to Dalaras' music about ten years ago, I loved it, then all too soon lost the friend - and Dalaras... and found him again by accident last december... But he is my sole 'gateway' to all of Greek music.

This state of thing, obviously will not last (not with you around), but for the moment it has advandages: for one, all the Dalaras records I still have to hear for the first time - oh, joy!

and for another, a total lack of preconception about 'ought' and 'ought not' in his songs (Greek or other)

and then the luxury of being completely irrational about the whole thing :-)

'Trelos yia sena' I find extremely useful for startling my friends with. Nobody here can bear to listen to Dalaras - they say! so I trick them with this. I already liked it in Sting's versions (I'm a bit of a fan of his), and I certainly don't think Dalaras' is less good.

"Akraia symptomata" and "I alli mou zoi" both took me a little while to get used to. But yes, they are beautiful. Very.

Hasta Siempre, on the other hand, I positively disliked at first. Then Dalaras sang it at the concert in Den Haag and it was im-pos-si-ble not to join in the chorus. So now I like that song too. But it is true that the biggest 'make me go cold all over' experience of the concert came from older songs, like 'ta vengalika sou matia'.

Anyway, Christo, I think you wrote a key phrase: "it will take some getting used to"... Indeed. Dalaras is such a great musician, he's always way ahead of everyone else. He WILL startle us. When I bought "...Me Dio Papoutsia Panina", I was startled out of my wits! (Iit is one of my favourite records. I don't mean 'Dalaras best', just that I've got to refrain from playing it more than once a day).

There is much to be said for Sarantis' attitude: take it on trust, "Georgo will not steer us wrong", as he says. Or if he does, he'll find out and do something else next time.

A question for the experts: Christo wrote " I loved the older Greek songs by Dalaras and I  don't  think will find them again since the new composers are refraining from that style" - could that be a good thing? A wise choice? After all, they have to be themselves, don't they? They can't  *be*  the great ones who died, only their descendants.

For me, listening to 'H asphaltos pou trechei' with my background of "mainstream music", it sounds like a highly original and extremely personal synthesis of a Greek identity with 21st century music. But then, as I said, I have the luxury of being irrational about this :-)

[Geske 37]

p.s.

Michael, thank you very much for the recommendations about records. I'm going shopping one of these days, which one should I buy first?

Anyone else wanting to advise me - please do!

[Dalarikos 0]

Geeska, buy them all !!! there is no bad Dalaras songs..Yes,some are different but intersting and unique..I have every thing Dalaras has recorded on CD and tape..I also have over 35 videos of officially released and some unreleased(THanks to my Friend Chris Apostolakis!!) Dalaras concerts...They are all wonderful.I ofen have Dalaras marathons on those weekends when its raining or just have the whole weekend free.I watch Dalaras concert videos all weekend..Its awesome!!! Its neat to watch the difference in his voice thru the years,not to mention the differnt hair lengths.....

[Michael 2]

Geeske, if for financial reasons you cannot realize the suggestion of Dalarikos ( ), I would also advise you to buy for example the three records mentioned by Nikolas. You are right, that would be a start quite at the beginning (1971, 1970, 1974). These songs will show you more "authentic" (however you prefer to define it) Greek music than Dalaras' records of the last years.

Concerning the CD "Me Dyo papoutsia panina": Of course it is O.K. that you like it (I do not like it, at least not very much) - that's a matter of taste. You can say you like Dalaras' voice in these songs, you like the melodies, the instruments you hear etc.

But please do not believe that these songs have to do anything with the characteristic Greek music (with exception the Greek lyrics, in some songs the use of a bouzouki and an attempt to imitate Greek rhythms).

That's the crucial point: THIS Dalaras should not be your "sole 'gateway' to all of Greek music". I am sure you will discover a completely different Dalaras by hearing for example the three CDs suggested by Nikolas.

For me it was also very characteristic that you wrote:

" 'Trelos yia sena' I find extremely useful for startling my friends with. Nobody here can bear to listen to Dalaras - they say! so I trick them with this."

That's for me the verification of what Nikolas writes in another thread:

"Finally, I believe that in order for a greek performer to have a wider target audience, he/she has to sing in english and use popular forms of music, like pop, rock etc. But then, this wouldn't be greek..."

O.K. Dalaras did not change to the english language but the "popular forms of music" (+ the popular types of orchestration) are to hear almost everwhere in his newer productions and of course one of the most characteristic examples is "Trelos yia sena".

To my mind, the price Dalaras is ready to pay for getting a wider target audience is very high!

Geeske, finally a question concerning your statement: "Nobody here can bear to listen to Dalaras - they say!" What is the reason for this? I mean: Do they give an explanation why they cannot bear it?

[Sarantis 0]

...

[Anna 752]

And to join in here, yes Geeske take ta tragoudia mou first! I was luky to be in Greece in 83 and this was the first time I heard Dalaras' voice and , of course bought these douple cassettas. And this was the start of all.

Which job do I get to work with Dalaras?

[Sarantis 0]

...

[Michael 2]

Geeske, thank you for describing what your friends think about Dalaras. It was very interesting to read. For me in a certain way it is the confirmation that Dalaras by singing pieces like the duet with Sting leaves completely the type of music which represents his own identity, changing to something totally different which "belongs" to a completely other type of audience - that is the western people who are accustomed to hear singers like Sting etc. That means: Dalaras and consequently his fans (Greeks and international ones) approach the "mainstream" - but I am convinced that the opposite will not happen: People who are accustomed to and who are a part of the (western) "mainstream" (like Sting and the listeners to his type of music) will not be interested and willing to approach substantially the greek music (by singing or listening to it).

It happened always this way! Nana Mouschouri or Vicky Leandros or Demis Roussos became international stars by singing always something completely untypical for Greek music and I think that there is not one person of their audience who started to listen to authentic Greek music as consequence of hearing these singers.

You write "we have to love Dalaras' voice first, then learn Greek music". O.k. that sounds logic but I think it is too late for something like that: Not even in Greece itself you will hear any longer very often some classical songs by Dalaras or others (like "O ouranos fevgei varys", "Kapou nyxtonei" or "Ach xelidoni mou" ). Really popular now are singers like Notis Sfakianakis or Kaiti Garmbi (sometimes with songs I also like) and when Dalaras releases a new CD you will hear the songs (or better: a few of the songs) of this new production and again not his "classical" ones. So how people from foreign countries will be able (and willing) to go back to Dalaras' "roots" by searching and buying his older productions? YOU do it - and to my mind this is very positive as it shows that you really like Dalaras - but I fear that you will remain a particular case, an exception.

Concerning "Enas kompos i xara mou": Yes, it is a song by Kougioumtzis. But I fear that here also you refer to the terrible (to my mind) arrangement by Pyx Lax and not to its original version. (That's another part of the problem: Dalaras sometimes is "betraying" and "destroying" even his own songs!)

Concerning "Apona matia": As I have already written, to my mind it is a wonderful CD. But most of its songs are very far away from any "western" sound and very close to what most of western people would call "oriental", "heavy" etc. (especially the second part with songs by Stelios Vamvakaris). So I would recommend you to buy and listen to it. But concerning your friends, according to your description of their opinions I am quite sure that letting them hear it would be a splendid method to achieve that they will never like to hear again Dalaras .

[Geske 37]

Chris, did we really seem overcritical? Sorry!! I think it is mostly that because we love Dalaras so much, we are afraid for him - afraid to see him "go wrong" somewhere. Musically. But that is of course sheer presumption, because he is too great a musician to do anything of the kind.

Also, when you wrote "Let's just be thankful that we got a new CD and a double one to boot" I suddenly remembered the moment when I unpacked it, and I looked and counted them and thought "what?? 28 tracks?? he must be the most generous singer alive!!!" And indeed he strikes me as very generous sort of artist... a very generous sort of person too, perhaps, you guys would know about that?

Michael, you have every right to defend the traditionnal approach to music, in fact, I'll man the barricades with you! I would be most unhappy if Dalaras gave that up. But I would be just as unhappy if he stopped startling me with songs like "H asphaltos pou trechei" and the Bregovic things. I like to be startled :-) And I will stand for Dalaras' right to sing anything he #### well wants to!

Chris, you asked: "When have you EVER bought a CD and "instantly" loved every song on it?"

Here's my answer: on 26 March this year, when I got myself "Ta tragoudia mou" for my birthday.

By the way, I have found that my 'instant favourites' on a Dalaras CD are often not the favourites in the long run. Have you?

Oh and Michael, don't be such a confirmed pessimist. When you write "People who are  accustomed to and who are a part of the (western) "mainstream" (like Sting and the listeners to his type of music) will not be interested and willing to approach substantially the greek music", are you sure that's quite fair? I think Sting is one of the more honest musicians, and has a genuine interest in different musical cultures. Of course he will use them in his own way, but it is an adaption to his own voice and musicality, not to the commercial taste of his listeners - or so I hope!! And the same goes for Dalaras, only more so. These are artists that I trust.

The tragedy is, indeed, as you wrote: "Nana Mouschouri or Vicky Leandros or Demis Roussos became international stars by singing always something completely untypical for Greek music and I think that there is not one  person of their audience who started to listen to authentic Greek music as consequence of hearing these singers." It is, ALAS, much worse: these are the singers who have spoilt my friends' ears so that they are now deaf to Dalaras! And I will NOT play "Apona matia" to them (when I get it) !

But I will still stand up for Dalaras' right to sing whatever he wants to.

About "Enas kompos...": I definetely do NOT prefer the Pyx Lax version, or the Frangoulis one either. I like the one on the 'live and unplugged" album, but my favourite is on "To Elliniko prosopo.."(live at the Sirius, 1988), which is the one CD I managed to grab ten years ago before losing sight of Dalaras. Michael might disapprove because there are no bouzoukis on it, and Sarantis because Dalaras does not play the guitar himself :-))  but I love it.

And finally, about 'Apona matia' - I will definitely get it as soon as I can lay my hands on it. Meantime I know I have a Vamvakaris song somewhere, so I'll go and try to find it :-)

[Michael 2]

Geeske, I also like the record "To elliniko prosopo". Of course you are right: These interpretations are not authentic at all (with exception perhaps the rebetiko song) and I regard this record (respectively the concert) also as a sort of experiment. But as an experiment it is interesting to listen to it because (as a consequence of the use of only one or two instruments)  you can hear very distinctly Dalaras' wonderful voice.    

I  am courious what will be your impressions about "Apona matia" .

[Geske 37]

OK everyone, the betting is now open:

will Geeske like "Apona matia" more, less, or as well as "H asfaltos pou trechi" ?

:-))

(Have to get hold of it first though. Major quest on the agenda!)

[Geske 37]

Christo, you've made my morning!!

I only have 15 :-(( of Dalaras' records, 7 of them on nearly dead tapes, but HALF your selection is among them (1,2,3, 6,7,12). Funny thing is that your 1 & 2 are rather near the bottom of my list. On the other hand 'Ta tragoudia mou' and 'Live at Attikon' take turns in my walkman when I bicycle to my office (very, very fast :-)  )

I've stuck "Metismena tragoudia" on the shopping list (for next time if I run out of money now). I'm itching to add "Trelli kai angeli" too.

I'm going to have to rob a bank or something...

[nikolas 86]

Well I have to add to this topic as well!

The new CD has 28 songs. I can find intrerest in all of them but there are some I prefer more...Those are:

1. Nixterida

2. Oso pernaei o kairos (great song)

3. Ta fantasmata

4. Patridognosia (very "fresh" song)

5. I alli mou zoi and finally

6. Iptameno xali

Regarding the last one, I am surprised that nobody mentioned it, unless I forget something. For me, it is one of the strongest points of the album!

[Geske 37]

I've tried to make my own top 5 from the 28 and failed abjectly!

I think it's because the songs are so diverse, I like them for different reasons in different ways, and you can't compare apples with pears, as we say in Holland.

I do want to agree with Nikolas on Iptameno xali. It's beautiful.

I also like Se xeno oneiro very much but no one else seems to?

(Edited by Geeske at 10:18 am on July 18, 2001)