alquimista

70's,80's or 90's?

39 posts in this topic

Well the seventies were the best, and then the eighties were the best too, and then nineties came and were best again, and the 21st century is as best as ever :) :)

I'm sorry Alquimista, for me it's an unanswerable question. There is always something different to love - that makes comparison impossible...

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Hey Chris, burning the way-past-midnight oil again?

I was thinking, maybe my favourite Dalaras period is still to come! Isn't that a nice thought...

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1983? Did he have the long hair already? :)

Just now I don't even envy you.

This is too beautiful a morning. For once, our dirty old mudflat was very lovely as I bicycled over... the sun just peeking over the horizon, the great river very blue, the trees and fields very green, the sky so clear and the first smell of autumn in the air...

And I was feeling 17, when I used a special tape to speed me to school when I was running late. Scorpions, live. Music can run through the veins like fire.

I had wings this morning, truly I did.

In the borrowed discman was this VERY SPECIAL Dalaras record... Normally the trip takes me about 50 minutes, this morning: 38! All records broken.

What a trip... :)

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Well, this question(70's,80's,90's)i feel is a trick question..Its like asking you to pick your favorite son or daughter out of three children...I personally cannot answer it because the whole body of Dalarases work has been so amazing..The complete body of work is what has made him the gretaest of all time..He began(1970's) as a crude young singer who could play adequite guitar and was fortunate to learn from and be around the legends of greek music.He sang the lyrics of the greatest lyricists and composers .He then(1980's) developed his voice and guitar playing and gained confidence and sang again some of the best songs written in Greece,at the same time experimenting with his love of different styles of music....Then in the(90's)he has had the foresight and wisdom to try even more things and different styles(folk,rock,latin,classical) and at the same time discovering the next group of young Greek songwritters and composers(katsimixas brothers,minos matsas,etc.)...So, i love it all overall..I cannot really pick a favorite..All i know he is always staying ahead of everyone else in Greece musically and always gives us something fresh.I think i would have lost interest in Dalaras a long time ago had he not taken the path he has taken.Im glad he did not just fall into the trap that a lot of Greek artists fall into.Doing the same thing over and over...Dalaras challenges himself musically first and then he challenges us as well...

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Κάθε μια 10ετία είναι καλύτερη από την προηγούμενη.Αν και η καλύτερη δεν έχει έρθει ακόμη.

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Chris, i was in no way refering to you in my post.I know that you are the biggest and best, most loyal Dalaras fan there is !!!Thats why he refers to you as "Xristaki"...he,he,he

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O.K. - I will present a point of view which is a little bit different:

To my mind Dalaras' "best" time was from the beginning up to about 1985. From this time started his "problematic" period (always speaking about the repertoire, not the voice, of course). Unfortunately (for me) this period did not finish until now - rather the opposite (the problems increased). Of course there were also a number of convincing songs in the late 80-ies and the 90-ies (especially the CD "Kalws tous" and certain songs of "Methysmena tragoudia" ) but for my taste in the meantime they are the minority.

(Edited by Michael at 9:28 pm on Aug. 17, 2001)

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Chris Apostolakis("hristaki") i agree with you.Dalaras did not have a problem with what he did after 1985.In fact the path he took was the right one.He stayed true to his hart and played the music he had passion for.Millions of record sales have proven that.In fact one great saying is "What Dalaras does today,all of Greece will do tomorrow"...This saying has held true over and over.. I find that the body of work Dalaras did after 1985 was equally as good as pre 1985...It was sometimes different but good......Those who did not like what Dalaras did moved on and are now listening to garbage Greek music..Simple minded music for the simple minds...I personally like new things that challenge me...Music has to evolve ,not just stand still and keep remaking the same types songs of yesteryear..Chris, im afraid some dont understand!!!

They will keep going thru life scatching their head....

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okay now my turn

Well lets see if I had to pick, the 70's are definately the Classics era, the 80's starts a new dimension with his of fame outside of Greece including the Latin,

the 90's are even better and brings in more of the Greek Rock movement and 21st century alive and well and kicking off even stronger today as when Dalaras 1st started out.

 So to answer your quesion?

It goes back to my previous thread on what orchestra played best with Dalaras?

The answer is from mid 80's to early mid 90's/

This was when the magic started to evolve globeally

and I felt like being driven in a never ending "roller coaster".

Up and down twisted sideways, forward, and backwards never knowing where Dalaras and his music will take you to next. excepting giving you the craving of wanting more and more of it from on stage of course.  What an addiction!!!

 It's even more better to sit up close in concert for then you really feel like your riding first on a roller coaster as he sings

 Topes,

 Xenos.

 H Ballantes tous Aisthesion kai ton Parathesion

 Mi Milas

 Una Monade Le

 and so on

  BTW, I agree with Chris

 I too love Dalaras with the longer hair.  It just fitts him perfectly like a rebel or that of Greek God  

 hehe

But the short hair look has got to go.  

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Christo, Dalaras may not have much choice about his hair length any more !!! I think the short hair is better for him now at 52.He looks like a elderly statesman,a legendary musician.....The long hair was great for the time and age he had,but now long hair would look sillya nd apear that he is trying to hang on to youth.....Chris you brought up a great thought in your earlier post.About where you sit makes a difference  during a concert.So, maybe we can start a thread about what is the closest row you have sat at during a Dalaras concert? was it the front row or in the nosebleeds or was the closest you ever got in the parking lot?LOL

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To me the best decade is 2000-2010. He accumulated all the experience from the 30 years he is singing, he has the power of choice (which is the most important), his instrumental skills are close to perfection and his voice is, I believe at its best shape. And on top of everything, he starts, slowly but steadily, providing us with his own songs (no that it would mind if he didn't).

So, the best is yet to come.

If the question refers to the past , I cannot really tell, because first I would have to set the criteria. Will it be the albums, the live concerts, the new blood with which he provided us year after year, I don't know. Every decade is beautiful.

I 've seen him live continuously since 1983, with all the bands, all the singers he worked with, all the different productions  (the only exception is the K. Gavras production and I regret deeply that I was not there), I have, I believe all the albums, and still I can't make up my mind. You can't leave the 70s out for reasons that we all agree on. You can't leave the 80s out. Think about it. He gave us the Katchimichas brothers, Arvanitaki, Tsaligopoulou and so many others. He introduced us to Al di Meola and Paco de Lucia, he became an excellent guitarist. He sang songs like Apona matia, Ksenos, Una Moneda le di, ti MIsia Grollia, paradosiaka, rembetika tis katoxis, and so many others.

And then the 90s, he reminded everybody about a small island southeast of Greece called Cyprus, he reminded the rest of the world about it, he gave us three amazing years at Iera Odos, and could go on and on and on but you get the point.

So, ther best is yet to come

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It is characteristic that almost all of you mention continuously (with a few exceptions) titles of records, songs and artists that have to do either NOTHING (absolutely nothing) or (at best) ALMOST nothing with authentic Greek (popular) music (in the sense of what Dalaras had interpreted in former times).

That's a sort of proof for me how Dalaras leaded away his listeners from this type of music - in a way and in an intensity that they (= the listeners) do not even miss it! To my mind that's really a sad result of about 15 years of "experiments".

And Sarantis writes:

"Music has to evolve, not just stand still and keep remaking the same types songs of yesteryear"

O.K. and what do we hear from Dalaras:

- Songs like "Con te partiro" or "Granada" (how many artists have sung this before him?)

- The old (and of course in their original version wonderful) songs by Kougioumtzis and others in a completely inappropriate for this type of music interpretation with a symphonic orchestra (namely the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra)

- On the CD "I asfaltos pou trexei" we have again all the 4 songs he has published already and only about a year ago as single CD + 4 other songs who obviously are not "new" ("Trelos gia sena", "Methysmena varka", "Krymmena kleidia" [as it is a traditional French song] and "Hasta siempre" ).

And in general to my mind it is NOT innovative at all to imitate styles like folk, rock, latin, classical (these are the styles mentioned by Sarantis in his posting above) which anyway we all know (or at least we have the possibilty to hear) in their original versions by their authentic musicians.

I think it would be much better if people develop their own taste and their own preferences in the field of music without permanently adopting uncritically whatever the "filter" Dalaras is presenting them.

(Edited by Michael at 2:04 am on Aug. 18, 2001)

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2 questions for Michael (and a request not to respond to the previous posts on this page):

1. Do you consider your statments to be objective or subjective?

2. Do you know what the Dutch disease is?

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Michael, i read your post and i am sitting here in amazement.Like the old saying goes."If you give someone enough rope they will hang themselves".Im sorry, but you make no sense,and the more you write the less you make sense...You just dont get it !!!! dont bother responding!!! I dont want to hear your negativity and phsycobable Bull crap......

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I go with Soc, about the best being yet to come.

You won't believe how recently I found out about Dalaras playing his own music!

Michael, I too would rather see you respond to Soc's 2 questions, than to posts made by deaf people.

Soc, a great many things have been called Dutch disease - which one do you mean?

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In particular:

(not my text)

"The warning about "Dutch disease" is a reference to an economic calamity that occurred in 17th-century Holland because of a European craze for tulips. The event has become a basic economic lesson taught to schoolchildren throughout the West.

After tulips were introduced into Europe from Turkey in the mid-1500s, the vividly colored flowers quickly became a popular commodity.

As with international energy markets last year, the demand for different varieties of tulips during the 1600s exceeded the supply -- and prices for rare types of tulip bulbs rose to unwarranted heights in Northern Europe.

By 1610, a single bulb of a new tulip variety was acceptable as dowry for a bride, and one profitable brewery in France was exchanged for a single bulb of a variety called Tulip Brasserie.

The steadily rising prices of tulip bulbs tempted many in Holland to speculate in the market -- at the cost of developing other sectors of the economy.

Homes, estates, and industries were mortgaged so that bulbs could be bought for resale at higher prices. But the tulip market crashed early in 1637 when doubts arose about whether prices would continue to rise.

Almost overnight, the price structure for tulips collapsed. Fortunes were swept away and Holland was left in financial ruin because its economy was too dependent on high tulip prices."

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Soc, may be that I am not intelligent enough (or at least too lazy to decipher parables), but I do not understand what this story has to do with Dalaras and the question which decade was his "best".

(PS: Unless you consider music in general and the activities of Dalaras in special as a commodity like shoes, a car, a TV-set or ... tulips which has to obey the principles of supply and demand.)

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Soc, concerning your question ("1. Do you consider your statments to be objective or subjective?" ) I considered the situation so clear that I did not regard it as necessary to answer. Moreover I did (and I do) not understand why you ask just ME and not (also) my "counterparts".

I thought it would be clear:

- Most of the statements here in the Club (mines and that of the other members) are of course subjective - in the sense that it is a matter of taste if your opinion is A or B or C.

- Moreover you will see that I use very often (perhaps for stylistic reasons too often) expressions like "to my mind", "I think" etc. in order to avoid that someone will get the impression I want to present something as an absolute truth.  

PS:

I admit that in the meantime we had also a discussion about a question which for me is NOT a simple matter of taste. I mean the discussion about the song "Krymmena kleidia" and the question if and in which extent an artist is entitled to change a still existing work of art (here: a traditional French song). That's for me no longer a simple matter of personal taste but an "objective" issue with regard to the ethics ("δεοντολογία" ) of an artist.

(Edited by Michael at 2:53 am on Aug. 20, 2001)

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So, may I ask if you have the same opinion for the "50 years of Rebetika songs" album, as for the song Krymmena kleidia?

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