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What do you think?

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This thread is getting messy but I would like to respond to Dalarikos on

"Dalaras sings better now than when he was young...So, im not sure why this happens that some singers sing better in there 40's and 50's than they did when they were young.(...) It might be that early on they were just thrown into the fire and just got out and sang.Perhaps thru the years they took voice lessons and learned to take full advantage of there voice."

Yes sure, his voice has grown! Like good wine, getting stronger and mellower with the years ;)

Most pop and folk singers are not all that much concerned with singing technique - I think in that respect Dalaras has more in common with classical artists, opera and so on - only his voice is utterly natural and human, as opera voices are not.

Best of both worlds...

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Michael, being "pure" Greek as I; I will be the first to come to Dalaras' defense...when need be!

Dalaras to me is like "politics" to a Greek man! LOL (A losing battle on the other side)! I cannot stand it when someone criticizes him; for when they do, they criticize Greece, too...and I am very proud of both!

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Chris, I can't resist teasing you a bit ;)

"I cannot stand it when someone criticizes him; for when they do, they criticize Greece, too...and I am very proud of both!"

so what do you do when Dalaras sings Mana mou Ellas, "Greece, you mother of grief, who sells your children as slaves" and so on, calling her a liar and what not?

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Just joking though. Don't get angry with me.

When you love enough , even what's a fault in the eyes of others turns to beauty.

They call it blindness - we call it being fans!

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Geeska,i will respond to your question about Dalaras playing flaminko guitar..By the way im writing under "Dalarikos" because im at my work and at work im "Dalarikos",when im at my home computer im "Saratnis".So Sarantis is the same as Dalarikos.I dont know why i did that.I could probably have been the same username at two different computers.Anyway,when Dalaras was  visiting me at my home we spoke about musical styles and of cource he played several of my guitars in my collection.I collect rare, vintage instruments and have over 50 guitars.I say this to give you background,not to brag by the way.Anyway, Dalaras told me that his early training was in classical guitar but i dont know if he has been trained as a flaminko player.He can probably play flaminko guitar since he is such a incredible musician.I know that he is an instrument buff as well as he also has many instruments,all high end proffessional quality instruments.So, we spoke more about what musical styles we like and about instruments.He really enjoyed my guitar collection and played several of my guiatars.I know that he is very ,very knowledgeable about the roots and history of Greek music and other types of music.That is why i say he is a music historian.Georgo reaches deep in every song he does or records and can tell you the roots and history of the song..He is incredible....I was very forunate to get to spend two days with Dalaras,most without fans hounding him.He was relaxed ,played with my two sons,we ate,hung out......I was a huge fan of his before i met him.After spending time with him i first became a bigger fan and also found great respect for his intellegence ,humbleness and modesty...Well, i ahve a hundred more graet stories but i can only write so much.I need to get back to work...I'll end this with a funny story.The main promoter who brought Dalaras to Atlanta said to me.I pay Dalaras thousands of dollars to come here to play a concert.He comes to your house and plays for free...He was just kidding of cource....

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So Dalarikos is really Sarantis stealing the bosses time under a false name, aha! :(

From your story I get the idea that Dalaras is one of those rare true artists who never really can see what all the fuss is about, who never really realize how exceptional they are - they know they're good, of course, but "so are others..." they might say, or "it's only me" ...

That's inborn modesty and it never goes away, even after 35 years or so on the stage. It makes me even more mad at the "hounding" kind of fan - Dalaras at least deserves better than that!

And that promoter, :)  :)

Dalaras plays for love, not money.

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I refer to Chris' following statement:

"... being 'pure' Greek as I; I will be the first to come to Dalaras' defense...when need be!

I cannot stand it when someone criticizes him; for when they do, they criticize Greece, too...and I am very proud of both!"

Oh Chris, do not believe that all Greeks love Dalaras. I know very well another forum where Dalaras is not only heavily criticized (as artist and as person) but where he is rejected totally by most of the visitors who post. And these are almost  exclusively Greeks! (If you think that I exaggerate you can ask Nikolas who knows very well what I am speaking about :(.)

Anyway, I think that an artist and his work should not be treated as a "national matter" (even though this happens often and everywhere).

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Chris and Michael, I DO WISH you'd quit squabbling!

We have a saying in Holland "Hoge bomen vangen veel wind"

It translates as "High trees catch a lot of wind", meaning that the more exceptionnal, talented, etc. a person is, the more they are exposed to both praise and criticism.

In fact the more splendid the person (or artist), the more violent the feelings they arouse, both ways.

Now don't be so ticklish, PLEASE.

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Well, I just sat here and read the last nine pages as I don't have a lot of time during the summer months as I'm really buzy at work.

I'm English before you ask, have lived in Cyprus for 18 years and married to a Cypriot.  My Greek is so-so, well bad really considering how long I've lived here, but I have been a fan of Dalaras for many years and have seen him about 20 times.  Recently I went to London and to Athens in the winter and last year saw him 3 times in Cyprus.

I believe that we all have our own tastes including Dalaras and we are entitled to change over the years as I know I have and I enjoy listening to music now that I probably would never have listened to 20 years ago (I must be getting old!!!).  Anyway we can listen with an open mind and enjoy and if not then we don't listen again to that particular CD.

I agree that his voice has improved with the years and also that he is better live than on video etc.  I have a lot of videos myself bits taken from here and there.

When I was in London, most of the audience wanted the "palio" songs, but that was because they don't listen to all his music and therefore like the old ones better which they know and can sing along.

Have to finish, but I will always listen to anything new that Dalaras does with an open mind, and of course some things I will like more than others, but that can be said of everything including people!!!!

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Geeska, yes Dalarikos and sarantis are the same..Anyway, about Dalaras as  a guest to my home.He is truly amazing.There was no ego at all with him,he and his wife were so nice, modest humble.At one point he and i went to my music room which is also where i have the Dalaras musium and memorabilia.He looked at all the things and smiled .Then we sat like two freinds playing guitar.He was suprized to see that i have almost every guitar he had and also the exact matching guitar straps that he uses...I cannot say how incredible those two days were..But then there is so much more.I have many stories because i went to another state where he was playing and we hung out there as well.When he returned to Greece after the tour,i receave a nice letter and gifts from him...The bottom line is that the legendary musician that we all love is also a "GREAT HUMAN BEING".So Dalaras fans take pride that our Dalaras is a great guy .The ultimate Dalaras story though is yet to come..I cant tell all in one letter.....

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Well after so many replies, it almost seems unworthy at this point in time to comment now. But alas, never too late; and after reading all of these posts, this is for Michael whom I admire his likeness of Dalaras for being of non greek descent but then then there are some things I did disagree with him on and thats what I will discuss here.

 He mentioned something about Authenticity in other native music abroad from Greece and that one would never listen to it if it were not for Dalaras or something from that sort.

 Anyhow, I must say Michael in some ways you were on the right track but here is where I disagree with you.  Everything that Dalaras sang, records, performs, plays, etc., is straight from the heart and soul.

 Nothing more nothing less!

 

When he takes on a project he gives his awe in it and not for Commercialism meaning  MONEY!

 When he attempts to do something new or relevant to something he has done in the past it will come out the way it should.  

 For example, I quote the Composer Arial Rameriz words, "I have heard many artists to sing my work on the mass 'Missa Criolla' but I think that Dalaras is by far the best vocalist/performer yet to  interprete my composition".  Something of those lines.

Here you have a native Argentianian who found a Greek Singer best on his works just to show you a true exmple of authenticity in Dalaras music.

 He will not cheat us. I bought every single copy that Dalaras sang from someone else's work just to compare the differences.

  Another example is from Ian Andersons' Jethro Tull songs 'John BarleyCorn'  from the cd A little Light Music.  It did not feature Dalaras on there but Ian Anderson sang it and when Dalaras sang it with him live in Greece, he did his best to portray a British/Greek accent to come as close to this style as possible despite the fact it wasnt a genuine british dialect, nevertheless it still came close.

 

  I bought the cd of Stings Mad about you to hear the original as to how it should be sung and again

Dalaras sang it in the same tyle it was originally recorded except with the fact he sang it with Greek Lyrics.

 And then there is the Gypsy Kings with Lili, "Song taken from the live cd Atikon".  It has a different title in spanish though.  The format is the same except sung again in Greek Lyirics.  Dalaras does not cheat us.

 He gives the true correct interpretation as to how the song should be sung.  Just like the Italian Blind singer Bertocceli singing that one song Dalaras sings from Iera Odos II with Frangoulis, Again perfect authentic vocals sung in Italian this time around.

 The point is what I loved most about his Dalaras works is his voice and I have Jose Carrerras version of Misa Criolla too and still I like Dalaras more.

From the Latin album which you didn't like , I have become a fan of Al Dimoela works since then album and have bought several of his cd's in the past too.

  As well as Papakonstantino and Katsimihas. I never knew any of these artists before nor was I ever introduced to the Greek Rock/Blues movement it if were not for Dalaras bringing them to us in his music.

However, I still need to get use to Bregovic style though. That will take some time getting use too.

 The point is I do find Authentic intrepreattions from Dalaras vocals.    Hope this makes some sense

Sorry for the lengthy letter.

 

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In addition too last reply.

 

 Michael I do somewhat agree with you about certain composers not recording enough with Dalaras and it appears to be negelected. Here you are correct and I respect your opinion.  

 It is true that after so many years, we could have had more works of Dalaras from various composers like Vardis, Spanos, Tokas, etc.,  but what about the ones who haven't recorded with him yet?

 Such as popular new guy Foivos who has recorded for all the commercial Greek Artists such as: Vandi, Vissi, Garbi, Karras, Antypas etc.,

 Alekos Hrysovernis and Spiros Giatras, another great Laiko composure and Lyrict, and then Giorgio Mousakis, Panos Falaras, Stelios Fotiadis, and of course Nikos Karvelas just to name a few.

 It seems that more of the newer Laika today as Dalaras quoted are. "Xekoudismeni"  meaning untuned. And therefore, they lack little substance. The big Giants today like Sfiakianakis, Terzis Vissi, Vandi, Garbi  are all good but will not waste time to take on a project that promotes a new style of music thats not in Laiko realm in their carreer.

 THey want to mas produce a hit after hit if they can just to stay on top of the charts., And certainly, the new Laika has a definatly western influence in it. At times with  the New Laika music that has a hip-hop beat to it, one tends to think he is listening to English music at first until we hear the greek lyrics in it.

 

And talk about your mainstream pop, look at some of your american artist slike Britanny Spears, Christina Aguillera and all of them?

 Take away the sex appeal and what do you have left?  Absoletly NOTHING! They walwyas need a bunch of dancers behind them to perform since they can't play an instrument and thus would otherwise look ridiculos on the stage.

 

 The Great jazz performers/artists  have 100x more talent than these rotten hip hop top 40 performers yet make 1/10 less of their pay.  And not to mention all the rap thats ruined the industry which is by the way one letter away from the letter C

 Well I could go on and on here but I won't.

One more thing though. I want to comment as to why Dalaras has stayed and lasted and other singers have gone?

 Let me say this I remember one morning before dawn I had to get up early for work at the airport.

 There was this local spanish channel on TV and I turned it on for a brief second, and who was on there yes Dalaras.  

 An MC was annoucing his name in spanish and spelled it YorYos Dalaras. It was around in the summer of 1987. I counldlt believe it my favorite singer live in Mexico and he was promoting the Latin Album. and I wanted to stay and watch more of it but had to leave for work. They briefly showed him on stage singing 'H Eleie kai Eleutheri Orawi'.  The first time I ever heard that song too.

So you see he was popular then with his Latin Albun and still is today.

Sure here in Michigan we look forward to the greek Concerts here when the Laiko singers  come to tour here such as Karras, Antypas, Glykeria, Zig Zag, Konstantina, Pantazis, Terzis etc., but they also have to perform in venus like dance halls. Why only because Greeks love to dance to Tsiftetelia and Syrta.  Well thats okay for a party.  Nothing wrong with that.

 But on a more extravagant level scale, I look forward more to a Dalaras concert that will be sung in a Theartre Auditorium seatting only because the standard and appreciation is higher and better. One Doesn't need to see a bunch of fanatics bombarding the dance floor and blocking the view. You can sit back and really listend and enjoy the acoustics of the show and for what Dalaras' message is really trying to convey.

Thanks for your thoughts

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Christo, first of all let me say that I appreciate that you spent so much time to respond to my postings. Thank you. I hope my answer will not be a mere repetition of my former statements (even though my opinions remain the same :():

1. First of all an entirely personal subjective remark:

In another thread I recommended the new CD of an obviously completely unknown singer named Nikos Speris. The title of the CD is "Isos apopse". The 10 th song on this CD has the title "Stis fygis tin plani". It is one of the most beautiful songs I have heard during the last months. I loved it from the first moment, I hear it again and again, the melody after a short time became "a part of me", I feel that here the musicians (and the lyric-writer) did not intend to make something "special", something "artificial" but only a "simple", "straightforward" song. And I know that almost all of you will criticize me now when I say the following:

Not even one of the (28!) songs on Dalaras' new CD could evoke such feelings within me! (And do not tell me that this is a proof that Dalaras is not the right singer for me. Especially in the past with many songs he achieved exactly the same. Otherwise I would not miss it now so intensely.) Yes, there are a few beautiful and (very) good songs on his recent CD (I have mentioned some titles in another posting) but hearing the song with Nikos Speris I feel that there exists a dimension in Greek music that Dalaras ignores completely on his latest CD. A dimension that obviously he is not willing to show us any longer.

2. Dalaras voice is wonderful. Of course every song is refined (enriched ) by this wonderful voice. We like a certain song because it is interpreted by such a magnificent voice. In this sense Dalaras charms us. Of course this happens to me too. But please: Try to make a distinction between HOW Dalaras is singing and WHAT he is singing. There are a number of songs (especially during the last years) where I got the impression: Such a great voice - by far too great for such a poor song (or at least: for a song with such poor orchestration etc.). I will not mention specific examples because I do not like to offend anyone's taste and opinions.

3. Christo, of course I do not say that Dalaras cheats us. By no means. But in a certain way he manipulates us by presenting us what he regards worthy to sing. You will say that this happens with every singer (or at least with the important ones) and I think that this is correct. The problem in the case of Dalaras is that he "manipulates" (he seduces) us to hear "things" (= songs, styles, orchestrations etc.etc.) which do not have the quality (the substance) they should have. (Of course this is completely subjective but subjective are most of our discussions here.) Let me say it a little bit different: We listen to "things"  that do not have the quality which had other (= the old) productions of Dalaras or which have (even though seldom) other productions of Greek music today.

4. And this brings me to another point: Chris (Apostolakis) was a little bit angry about me when I wrote that to my mind it was a waste of ressources to make a double album "Latin". And the reason for this opinion of mine is what you also mentioned now, Christo. You say: "It is true that after so many years, we could have had more works of Dalaras from various composers like Vardis, Spanos, Tokas, etc." Exactly! In case of Dalaras we speak of one of the 3 or 4 or 5 most important Greek voices (many will even say: the most important one). And from this voice within more than 30 years of singing we have heard up to now 4 (!!) songs composed by Giannis Spanos (for example) but dozens of latinamerican songs, "Missa Criolla", rap by Bregovic, "Mad about you" with Sting etc.etc. Such choices and such disproportions in the repertoire of one of the most important Greek singers will remain completely uncomprehensible and unacceptable for me.

5. And you all see what's the effect: All the people speak about Latin, Bregovic or Pyx Lax (even foreign fans of Dalaras are already familiar with the name of this group). And at the same time - except of some insiders - no one will know at least the name of Spanos, Polykandriotis or so many others who are completely ignored by a singer like Dalaras (and during the last years unfortunately by most of the other artists and the public too).

And what is he doing even with Kougioumtzis? O.K. - he sings (at the end of 2000) three new songs for him. First of all this is a very small amount. Secondly he "hides" them on a CD that is not his (= Dalaras') own one and he is not even ready to include them on his new double CD which appears a few months later with 28 songs. On the other hand, Dalaras did not hesitate to present us again all the 4 songs of his single CD "Tha 'rtho na se vro", containing songs which are - let's say - quite far away from whatever a composer like Kougioumtzis has ever written (I try to say it as neutral as possible).

6. Christo, I was deeply impressed that you are so familiar with Greek music that you know the names of composers and lyric-writers like Chrysovergis / Giatras, Falaras etc.etc. I would like very much to speak about them too but my posting is already very long, moreover the matter would bring us too far away from Dalaras and so better I will stop here. (Perhaps in another thread we could discuss about these artists, maybe in the Greek language which would be more easy for me.) Here only let me say: I like many songs of the musicians and lyric-writers you mentioned (despite of their bad reputation among the friends of Greek "quality"-music :) ) and I would prefer a cooperation of Dalaras with some of these composers and lyric-writers to some cooperations we see and hear on many of his newer CDs.  

(Edited by Michael at 12:01 am on July 19, 2001)

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Boys and girls

If we keep this way, this topic will become the forum itself and will be very slow to load. I lock it and let's open seperate topics for any issue we want to discuss or continue the subjects we opened here! :(

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