Some thoughts about the club.

[Andreas 0]

Geske, it seems we are simply "incompatible" personalities, that's all.

But even if I knew that before, this case was too categorical indeed.

I had really the impression you want to behave just like this "Big Brother" in the part of the Forum you are working most. But it is you, too, who called this first, and I appreciate that.

Oh yes, that was a careful way with words, was it? If you are so sensitive to other's words, why don't you try and be a bit more sensitive about what you write to others?

Or perhaps it is best not to take everything so extremely serious?

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Please, Andreas,

do read carefully, in what context these words were given, well? And take your time, if you will.

This is in Geske's and my previous posts clear enough, I hope at least.

Geske described it herself and she did it apt to my thoughts.

But since it is tried to be explained now between us two, Geske and me,

do not make the things more hard, please.

By the way, I was given, more timms in life, the name of "Big Sister" and I enjoy that in full.

It's only a pity I have to add this in the end of this particular post.

I think I can't write more now.

Olga

[Andreas 0]

Please, Andreas,

do read carefully, in what context these words were given, well? And take your time, if you will.

This is in Geske's and my previous posts clear enough, I hope at least.

Geske described it herself and she did it apt to my thoughts.

But since it is tried to be explained now between us two, Geske and me,

do not make the things more hard, please.

By the way, I was given, more timms in life, the name of "Big Sister" and I enjoy that in full.

It's only a pity I have to add this in the end of this particular post.

I think I can't write more now.

Olga

You know, I really think I have. If you mean something different than you have written, it is not something I can do anything about, is it?

Geeske said "Who the helll do you think I am, Big Brother?",

whereby you responded with: "I had really the impression you want to behave just like this "Big Brother" in the part of the Forum you are working most. But it is you, too, who called this first, and I appreciate that."

Now, let's analyse this a bit. Geeske states (indirectly) that you should *not* think of her as a "Big Brother". You then respond saying that you thought she was a "Big Brother" and that she herself had said so.

In my book that is not what I would call a compliment. Of course, I know that Geeske don't really bother with it, but it rhymes very badly with your:" I had to learn, how to deal with words, not only during my literaric studies. It was sometimes a painful and long-lasting study of life.

Therefore, I try to be very careful in using language and words. I became sometimes oversensitive in this matter."

If you are so careful in reading/writing words, you can not blame your "name calling" on ignorance. And this oversensitiveness. It is for words being directed at you, right? Not the other way around.

Sorry for being so rash, but this whining is just too much for me. Yes, I said whining, because that is just what it is. Get over it!

[Geske 37]

I had really the impression you want to behave just like this "Big Brother" in the part of the Forum you are working most.

To Olga, or anyone who gets the impression that I am trying to play "Big Brother", or to give orders, or to shut people up, or to make myself seem better than they, or better than I am:

it is YOUR impression, and it is a false impression, and I am NOT accepting any responsability for it.

I have been accused this way before. Sometimes it is just a misunderstanding because I have lost my temper or expressed myself badly. Sometimes the accusation is serious, and then it usually has one of three causes: a) the accuser wants to be Big himself, and wants to see me as a rival. b ) the accuser has an inferiority complex and wants to see me as a menace and c) the accuser wants me to be sweet sugar big sister while in fact I am my grumpy self.

Yes I contradict people, yes I argue, yes I have opinions, strong ones, and I do voice them. But I expect all of you to do the same.

In fact, I have exactly as much respect for your opinions as you yourself have.

If someone tries to tell you "don't ask these questions", I promise you I will bite their head off. If someone tells you "you are a stoopid foool" I will bite their head off. But if they say "I disagree with you", or "your words do not make sense to me", or "I don't see the relevance of your question" and you take offence, it is you who is in the wrong.

example:

But it is you, too, who called this first, and I appreciate that.

I do not understand what you mean by this sentence. It is not clear.

p.s. by Big Brother I mean the mad dictator in Orwell's novel, not the disgusting tv programme that is one of the worse exports of my country, even worse than heineken beer.

[nighthawk 0]

Heineken isn't that bad!

Come on, take it easy all of you, this is only a forum and there's no need to argue because of something someone says in a precise moment. Is it really that important? Just think... Or never mind what I'm saying but I just don't think this is very healthy, there are enough wars in the world already...

@Andreas: let Olga whine. You yourself may want to whine someday and somebody won't let you. Now, how does that feel? Whining at times can be good for the brain, like laughing and crying or having a fag and a drink of whisky, we aren't super heroes and I believe we do have the right to whine a little if we feel like it. I don't think the forum will become a whining place just because someone feels like whining sometime, I see no such danger here... Be

[francois 4]

[henk de leeuw 0]

Dear members,

I received a private mail from Olga that she is stopping writing in this forum. I would like to ask the members a couple of questions:

In the past we were an active forum with all kind of members and everybody wrote a lot, why is this not happening anymore????

Answer: members were finished with Geeske.

Where is Anna, Kate and all those other old members, does anyone know why they are not writing anymore?????

Geeske thinks she is Dalaras master, I remmeber two years ago to Frankfurt. It was her first concert and she didnot know anything about Dalaras. Yvonne is my withness. Nowadays she thinks she is married with him.

I also had argue with her and ask members how it ended. I am still visiting the forum veryday and see what is happening with this forum. A pity for this forum.

Why donot we go back to the old forum with respect for each other. Can somebody tell me?

I would like to start this discussion and Olga pls write and ask on.

REgards

Henkos

[Kate 42]

Henk

This is just for information. I wrote three posts in the last week.

[GAG 0]

Henk ,the answer to your questions are easy.There is a cancer in the forum.Geeske,Francois and a few others. Intolorence. close minded.

Do you still wonder why many are leaving?

[henk de leeuw 0]

Kate,

thanks for the info, but you know what I mean.

Henkos

[henk de leeuw 0]

Dear GAG,

I would not use this kind of words. Just lost my grandmother with this decease. We should find a solution to safe the forum and respect each other. In my opinion it is only one who makes the trouble.

Why donot we avoid her????

Henkos

[francois 4]

Henk ,the answer to your questions are easy.There is a cancer in the forum.[......],Francois and a few others. Intolorence. close minded.

Do you still wonder why many are leaving?

GAG, I may be what I am, but I certainly am neither intolerant, nor "close minded" - I suppose you meant "narrow-minded". I post what I want to post, in perfect honesty and sincerity. Who are you, anyway, you who are writing the word intolerance? We don't even know who you are κλπ... All my posts show that I am not intolerant... except towards those who don't repect people. Now, stay away from my name, and mind your own business.

[Olga Fendrych 0]

A few minutes break in my previous decision (let me repeat, a temporary one, but still kept).

Without all the named members, Anna, Francois, Geske, Kate, and others still remembered ones (the American members among others, I mean) this Forum would never become as it is.

I think, everybody can see, just those persons have given the greatest part of useful, needed, wished informations here, which are worth to be kept under the name of "Giorgos Dalaras' Forum (Community)"

Including Geske, Henk , I repeat, including Geske.

She is, surely, not the only person who makes troubles with her temperament and attitudes. Everybody does sometimes. But since she is very active in her useful works (I repeat, useful works), therefore seen more, too.

As long as nobody would make an impression, that it is his own Website - everything is still to be continued.

The rights to say "this is my Website" belong to NIKOLAS GALANIS and it is GEORGE DALARAS' Unofficial Website, described, you all know already, as the best one ).

We owe to those two persons the best work we can afford, that's all.

"The Forum with respect for each other..... :)" Ap' to stoma sou to Theo st'auti!!!!!!!

Henk, one of the possible answers to the given questoion is given some time ago by Soc, if I remember well. There is no possibility to write 52 weeks a year something important to the same topic, people get tired and need breaks.

As far as I know, Kyrios Giorgos is married with Anna Rangouzi

and Henk, no need to have a suspicion Geske or anybody else is going to change this state, even only in jokes.

Do believe, people, we are all intelligent enough to have a high level of discussions here and a similar level of trust in each others' common sense.

Greetings to everybody.

And I come surely back to the another activities, but not yet.

This one will remain my last open post for the next period of time.

I still need a break, the reason was serious enough.

Festina lente.

Olga

PS. GAG, you are a new person here. Please, do accept at least the fact, that just Geske and Francois with their huge work made not just problems, but a big and valuable part of this Forum. Just try to do the same, if you will. You are welcome.

[henk de leeuw 0]

Gag,

I fully agree with Francois, pls stop insulting people.

Henkos

[Michael 2]

I can simply say that I share Olga's point of view. (Thank you, Olga, that you interrupted your silence for a moment. )

Concerning GAG's statement:

There is a cancer in the forum.Geeske,Francois and a few others.   Intolorence.  close minded.

              Do you still wonder why many are leaving?

I agree with you that there is a form of intolerance and close-(narrow)-mindedness by some members in the Forum. We have seen it several times. (I refer to the cases when someone dares to make a critical comment about Dalaras or when someone dares to say that he appreciates certain artists whose names are not "welcome" in this Forum [Antzela Dimitriou for example].)

But referring to this intolerance and close-(narrow)-mindedness, I would never, never have in mind the two members you mentioned!!

I could only imagine that with your accusations you refer to some (older) comments by Geske about religion or to Francois' statements about political and ideological matters. Well, if this is what you mean, I also do not agree with you: They have clear positions and they express them directly. But this is not at all the same as being intolerant or close-(narrow-)minded. (Geske simply in some moments has bad manners but this is something she already admitted by herself too.)

And in general I would like to say:

If you (or anyone else) are not satisfied with the postings of a member (either the content either the way it is written) you should react immediately by writing also a posting in which you make clear what disturbs you. To stay silent, to resign (and finally leave the forum) is no good solution because then no one of us will learn about your (or anyone else's) different point of view.

[celeste 0]

Well, everyone, I'm still trying to digest what I read. I know that things or let's say, disagreements, had been going on in the forum for some time and, as many occured before I joined, I cannot pronounce myself in relation to those. However, I have to speak in behalf of those whose name is here referred and as much as I defend NIKH's return and Olga's attitude, I also have to say a word in favour of Francois and Geske. I think they've given a valuable contribution to the forum. What about Geske's translations (lots of hard work!)?! What about Francois's topics?! I may not have agreed with statements of theirs a couple of times but this doesn't mean that I don't respect and accept what they think. I'm seeing a lot of intolerance and, Gag, cancer is quite a strong word.

I do feel sorry that older members are not writing so much as they used to. However this is an open forum, correct me if I'm wrong, and it's impossible to keep the same spirit as one or two years ago. Things change but I hope it doesn't mean that they change for worse. They just change because people change and new members add their own personality. Maybe many of you don't like it the way it is now but, as for me, since May (the month I joined) I've enjoyed myself many times, laughed a lot, been indifferent, been bored, been outraged. Because the forum is alive! and life si made of all this, of joy, of disagreements also, insults sometimes - though they should be avoided. We are still a community linked by the "addiction" to dalaras's music, whatever our misunderstandings. Cancers are awful things that must be torn out. I don't see such things in here. Peace and love! ( the missing cliches:razz: )

Celeste

[HARDET 1]

Αγαπητοί φίλοι

Είμαι ένα από τα σχετικά νέα μέλη και θα ήθελα να αναφερθώ στο ακόλουθο θέμα. Νομίζω πως πρέπει να προσπαθήσουμε, όσοι μπορούμε, να γράφουμε τα μηνύματά μας και στα αγγλικά, καθώς είναι πολύ οι φίλοι από το εξωτερικό και θα γίνουν πολύ περισσότεροι - που τιμούν το Γιώργο Νταλάρα και την ελληνική μουσική και θέλουν να συμμετέχουν στις συζητήσεις, ακόμα και θέματα ή εκδηλώσεις που αφορούν μόνο την Ελλάδα. Δεν είναι πάντα κάτι εύκολο, ιδίως αν πρόκειται για δημοσιεύματα, αλλά συχνά μία μικρή περίληψη αρκεί. Για να είμαι ειλικρινής και εγώ ως τώρα έγραφα μόνο στα ελληνικά και νομίζω ότι αυτή η παράκληση είναι μία καλή αρχή.

Dear friends

I have recently joined the community and I would like to make a suggestion. I think we should try, if we can, to post in English as well, in order our friends from abroad, who honor George Dalaras and greek music, to be able to read most of the topics of this community and share their opinion with us, even if we are talking about events concerning only Greece. It is not always easy to translate everything in a foreign language, especially newspaper articles for example, but a small summary is better than nothing. To be completely honest, I used to post in Greek only, and I think this post is a good start.

Dora

[franz averstegge 5]

Thank you Dora for your help!!

I remember the early days of the community (2001) we had maybe 75% posts in English , and the rest in Greek language. Now it is the opposite!!

Franz

[Michael 2]

Νομίζω πως πρέπει να προσπαθήσουμε, όσοι μπορούμε, να γράφουμε τα μηνύματά μας και στα αγγλικά,

I think we should try, if we can, to post in English as well, in order our friends from abroad,

Δώρα, όποιος θέλει ας γράψει τα μηνύματά του σε δύο γλώσσες. Εννοείται. Αλλά είμαι πέρα για πέρα αντίθετος σε οποιεσδήποτε τάσεις να γίνει κάτι τέτοιο μέρος του "netiquette" (των κανόνων καλής συμπεριφοράς στο Ίντερνετ), δηλαδή να εξελιχθεί σε ένα είδος ανεπίσημης υποχρέωσης ("πρέπει να προσπαθήσουμε" κλπ.).

Προσωπικά δεν έχω ούτε χρόνο ούτε όρεξη ούτε αρκετές γνώσεις και των δύο γλωσσών (της αγγλικής και της ελληνικής) να το κάνω τακτικά. (Αυτό ισχύει και για τυχόν περιλήψεις.) Περιστασιακά (όταν το θεωρώ χρήσιμο ή κατόπιν ειδικής επιθυμίας) θα γράψω ένα ελληνικό κείμενο και στα αγγλικά, κατά τα άλλα όμως όχι.

Everyone may feel free to write his postings in two languages. Of course. But I am strictly against any tendencies to make this a part of "netiquette" (rules of good behaviour in Internet), in other words: that it becomes something like an unofficial obligation ("we should try" etc.).

Personally I have neither enough time neither enough mood neither sufficient knowledge of both languages (English and Greek) to do it regularly. (This applies to eventual summaries too.) In some cases (when I find it useful or upon special request) I will write a greek text in English too, otherwise not.

I remember the early days of the community (2001) we had maybe 75% posts in English , and the rest in Greek language. Now it is the opposite!!

Franz, to my mind this is quite logical (and desirable) as we have to to do it with a Greek singer whose repertoire is for the greatest part songs in Greek language!

And that Greeks (or any other people in the world) use their own language - especially when writing about topics which have to do with their own matters (their country, their culture etc.) - I regard as something very positive and desirable!!!

Translations may be a good and useful additional service. But only a "service" - and not something which should be demanded or which we should complain about when it does not take place.

[Anna 752]

Dora, thank you very much for your understanding.

And Michael, you are wrong. No one is demanding for writing in English, its just a small wish to those who are able to do

[Marijke 23]

I completely agree with you,Anna, I try to read as much as I can in greek,but it's simply impossible to understand all. It would help such a lot if members who can do it write a bit in english too.

Thank you Dora, for your understanding!

[panosb 0]

I empathise with you, but still the problem has nothing to do with the writers' intentions.

You see, when a discussion takes place in Greek, between two or more Greek members, nobody is concentrating on the fact that other members can not follow. That's why some topics are being "straggled" in one language only.

But again if somebody asks for explanation, then immediately a translation or a brief description of the topic is sent by a volunteer.

However, let's not forget that there might be members who can not write in English as easy as they can in Greek.

Anna: You confuse me :blink: You say: "No one is demanding for writing in English, its just a small wish to those who are able to do".

But the "service" Michael is talking about already exists! And dispite its existance.... you want more! ! The only thing that can be done is to oblige all the members to write in English, which is impossible - and unfair.

It's good that HARDET openned - again - this subject. But unfortunately the solution is in every member's choice of language...

[Astron 17]

For the members who don't speak Greek:

I found out that altavista.com has included a "greek to english" translation in its translation services.

Check out http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Here is what you have to do:

Write the Greek text in the space provided and select "English to Greek" from the list below. Then click "translate".

I understand that it's still experimental and most translations don't turn out well... But still, it can give you an idea of what the greek speaking members are talking about.

I hope it helps

[Geske 37]

Babel fish.

The original Babel fish is a creature from "the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (by Douglas Adams). You stick it in your ear, and...

"What's this fish doing in my ear?"

"It's translating for you. It's a Babel fish. Look it up in the book if you like".

[...] 'The Babel fish' said the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy quietly 'is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied the. The practical upshot of this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. [...]

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than any else in the history of creation.'

On the forum, what helps it letting people know you are interested. Really. We've seen it happen here many, many times: in a topic all or mostly in Greek, when there is a post saying "this looks interesting but I can't understand most of it", this is almost always enough encouragement for someone to provide at least a summary.

When you know who it is for, you do it - otherwise, usually not. At least, that's my experience.

[Natalie 0]

If I may just add my opinion about this issue:

1) I think part of the reasons why the forum has almost non existent English posts now, is because the international non-Greek speaking members have more or less left, for one reason or another which could be related to the fact that there are no more English posts to read (this goes in a circle ad infinitum ...).

2) A forum is as good as there are people who participate, i.e. post in it. If you want to have a response or something written in English, I encourage you to be the first to post, and then wait and see if there is any response in English. Same thing with respect to asking for a translation or a short summary of a Greek post or article, as Geske and Michael said.

3) This is a Greek forum, even though it started as an international forum (however, see point 1 above), and the members who contribute now are almost totally Greek or Greek-speaking or who can read Greek and respond in English. It is absolutely unfair, as Panos and Michael said, to ask them to write in English, or to translate in English, for the benefit of ... how many?? non-Greek speaking and non-Greek reading members.

4) This is a Greek forum (I stress this point) and as far as I know, no one Greek member had ever, but ever, complained about the French, German, Arabic, Turkish, and miscellaneous other languages that have been posted by non-Greek members. Have you ever asked yourselves how the Greek members feel about that?

5) If this were a German forum, for a German singer ,where most of the members are German, I think no one would ever have dared to ask that they post in English, or maybe in ... Greek? What horror!! You could get crucified just for daring to ask.

6) For non-Greek speaking/reading members who are completely frustrated by the lack of English literature in this forum, I am looking for potential members to join me in Elvis forums, or Neil Diamond's, or Demis Roussos', or the latest crave ... Socrates' Fan Club. Dalaras who? I am a fan of Soc now!!