Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου ερημιά

[Geske 37]

ΑΝ ΔΕΙΣ ΣΤΟΝ ΥΠΝΟ ΣΟΥ ΕΡΗΜΙΑ   |    ΙF YOU SEE A WASTELAND IN YOUR DREAMS

Μουσική: Σταύρος Κουγιουμτζής   |    Music: Stavros Kougioumtzis

Στίχοι: Σταύρος Κουγιουμτζής   |    Lyrics: Stavros Kougioumtzis

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου ερημιά και δέντρα μαραμένα   |    If you see a wasteland in your dreams,and withered trees,

θα κλαιν στον κήπο σου πουλιά και μια καρδιά στα ξένα   |    birds will be crying in your garden, and a heart in the alleys.

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου εκκλησιά αν δεις την Παναγία   |    If you see a church in your dreams,if you see the Madonna,

κάνε τον πόνο μου χαρά το δάκρυ μου ευτυχία   |    turn my pain into joy my tear into happiness.

Αν δεις σε χέρι παιδικό πουλάκι πληγωμένο   |    If you see in child's hand a little bird, wounded,

πάρε τις στράτες να με βρεις εγώ σε περιμένω   |    take the roads to find me, I am waiting for you.

PS. Some years later, here is a revised version:

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου ερημιά_____||_____ Should you see a wasteland in your dreams

Μουσική: Σταύρος Κουγιουμτζής_____||_____ Music: Stavros Kougioumtzis

Στίχοι :Σταύρος Κουγιουμτζής_____||_____ Lyrics: Stavros Kougioumtzis

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου ερημιά_____||_____ Should you see a wasteland in your dreams,

και δέντρα μαραμένα_____||_____ and withered trees,

θα κλαιν στον κήπο σου πουλιά_____||_____ there will be birds crying in your garden

και μια καρδιά στα ξένα._____||_____ and a heart crying in foreign lands.

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου εκκλησιά_____||_____ Should you see God's house in your dreams,

αν δεις την Παναγία_____||_____ should you see his Mother,

κάνε τον πόνο μου χαρά_____||_____ turn my pain into joy

το δάκρυ μου ευτυχία_____||_____ my weeping into happiness.

Αν δεις σε χέρι παιδικό_____||_____ Should you see in a child's hand

πουλάκι πληγωμένο_____||_____ a little bird, wounded,

πάρε τις στράτες να με βρεις_____||_____ take the roads to find me

εγώ σε περιμένω_____||_____ I am waiting for you.

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Geeske, thanks!

Only I would think about a better word for this "Panagia", Madonna is a picture of Mary with her Child, and this is not the exact meaning here. It means something like "wholly holy", but it sounds ridiculous, I think, like a joke for an FCE exam:

if a devil is completely sinful, what is an angel?"

Our Lady - no, neither.

Perhaps: Holy Virgin?

Help us then, please,

Olgitsa

[francois 4]

You found it, Olga! "Holy Virgin" is the right translation.

[Geske 37]

Olga, you are trying to be too litteral and loosing the real meaning. Madonna is quite appropriate.

[francois 4]

"Madonna" is too reductive, too simplistic...

[Geske 37]

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου εκκλησιά αν δεις την Παναγία   |    If you see a House of God in your dreams,if you see his Mother

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Bravo sou, Geeske, I like this version indeed,

thanks, Francois,

and now, I think, I need the translation of "Mou edose o Plastis tin kardia", one of the most joyful songs  of Giogos' first personal album. Let's try it, Geeske, what do you think about it?

Με γλυκο χαμογελο

Ολγιτσα

[francois 4]

Αν δεις στον ύπνο σου εκκλησιά αν δεις την Παναγία   |    If you see a House of God in your dreams,if you see his Mother

Geeske, you are a stubborn incorrigible girl !!!

But "if you see his Mother" is a very nice and dimiourgiki idea!!!

[Annemarie 19]

Non, non, Geeske, Francois !

I must protest strongly here.

Η Παναγία  is not the Mother  of God (Η Μητέρα του Θεού) a remote figure. Η Παναγία "c'est Notre-Dame" Our Lady, a popular as well as a holy figure who remains very close to simple and ordinary people "le petit peuple", who can hear all their prayers understand, protect and comfort and bring happiness.

That's why she is so often mentionned in popular songs.

Well,this is the way I see it   

[francois 4]

Ne crie pas si fort Annette!!!

"Notre Dame", good idea too, but as Geeske would say, "right word, wrong language"...

We all know what Panagia means anyway... There's even a very rude... but I'd better stop here   .

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Francois, Annemarie, you two, I don't understand French, distichos....

Well, Annemarie, what would be your version, then?

"Mother of God" - I can appreciate your opinion, the mine would be the same, but "His Mother" has something  more "human", I think. It's not "Isis und Osiris..."

And the word "Panagia" is so involved into the Byzantine theology, that it can't be translated easy, I think (and we can see it)

Panagia, Maria, Miriam even. I know it doesn't suit in this text, let's ask our Greek friends, what their ideas would be. Saranti, Niki, Apostoli, Pavlos, Nikola, Giorgo Dalara & family, pou eiste;

As I wrote once, I know this song long enough, I was somewhere 15, as I was writing my own texts to its melody, so I would like to find the most suitable words for translation, too. Geeske, thanks once more for your work and ideas, indeed.

Olgitsa

[Geske 37]

I don't think theology is the appropriate tool here.

The only excuse for using "his mother" is that it makes a convenient pair with "house of God" as a metaphor for church.

And the only excuse for that, is that the English language lacks a name as affectionate as "Notre-Dame" for Mary, because the Northerners cut short their affectionate relationship with her at the Reformation.

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Ge(e)ske, you don't need to apologize for your invention, as you see, nobody found a better association as yours and it sounds well in the whole text. I agree, we don't need a deep theology for one word, but it happened already so this evening.

Does anybody remember this "Panagia" in the other songs of Kyrios Giorgos? I don't at the very moment.

If so, let's see, what the translations are up till now.

One question more: how would you translate  the word "mangas"?

Καλη σας νυχτα ολους,

Ολγιτσα

[Geske 37]

14 hits for Παναγιά in the site, and Μάνα μου και παναγιά is not even in there. As Annemarie said, it's a word much used in song. As well as in other places, as Francois said

Mangas: you don't translate it, you listen to rembetica till you know what it means, isn't that right, Francois?

[Anna 752]

Ok. I'm not Francois, but I also think the word 'manga' is not to translate!

But as it was Olga's question and I know she understands the German, I just write down what I found in a booklet of a cd about Rembetika!

Mangas: Ein Mensch, der ausserhalb der Gesellschaft lebt. Er zeigt seine Abneigung gegen das Konventionelle und Uebliche: er heiratet nicht, geht niemals mit seiner Freundin Hand in Hand, traegt keine Krawatte und keinen Hemdkragen, hat nie einen Regenschirm bei sich, hasst die Polizisten, raucht Haschisch, hilft den Schwachen und meidet Arbeit. Manges vertrauen nur Manges und vermeiden Kontakte zu Menschen aus anderen Kreisen. Sie sprechen ihren eigenen wortreichen Slang, der auch Einzug in ihre Lieder findet. Die Manges bildeten am Anfang des 20. Jh. ein eigenes subkulturelles Milieu in den griechischen Hafenstaedten wie Volos, Piraeus, Thessaloniki und in den Haefen Kleinasiens wie Smyrna.

[francois 4]

14 hits for Παναγιά in the site, and Μάνα μου και παναγιά is not even in there. As Annemarie said, it's a word much used in song. As well as in other places, as Francois said

Mangas: you don't translate it, you listen to rembetica till you know what it means, isn't that right, Francois?

Mangas... not very translatable indeed.

"Mec" would be a good French word for it (I do believe they are of the same origin...).

[Annemarie 19]

Ne crie pas si fort Annette!!!

We all know what Panagia means anyway... There's even a very rude... but I'd better stop here   .

Desole mon cher !

You should know by now what an "excitable" kind of grandmother I am...

As for Panagia, I suppose we all know about the "very rude...".

For this reason I would leave the word untranslated just like mangas.

Let's hear our Greek friends comments when they have more time.

And Geeske, no criticism intended on your remarkable creative talent, as you well know  

[Niki 0]

Panagia. it can have all those meanings... I suppose here we need the sort of word that describe Panagia as a shelter and as a figure that is filled with sadness for her lost child... Perhaps since we all sence what it means but noone can describe it in one word, leaving it the way it is, is the best...

[Geske 37]

There is a difference between the Greek Παναγιά and Mother Mary (by any of her names) in English. But she is essentially, and even in much detail, the same person. On the other hand, there is no such thing as a μαγγας anywhere but in Greece, and therefore in Greek. This is probably why I translated one, and not the other. I say probably, because I did it first and thought about the reason afterwards.

[francois 4]

This is one of the best "literary" talk about the word "Panagia" I have ever heard... very international and truly Greek too!

[Annemarie 19]

C'est tout ce que tu as a dire Francois ? :sarcasm:

For my part, Geeske, I do believe that there is no such thing as the Greek Panagia. No way I could use the name of the Virgin Mary or Mother Mary or whatever to be rude.......

To me this is typically Greek, just like the way Greek people don't hesitate to insult their patron saint if they feel they haven't been watched over properly.

I don't know how other orthodox people feel about this ?

Olgitsa ?  

Francois, how do you translate the word in your translations of rebetika ??

[francois 4]

Well, when I have to translate "Synnefiasmeni Kyriaki" to non Greek listeners, I usually translate the "Panagia mou" with "Oh, ma Toute Sainte", and people never ask me any questions about it...

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Thanks for everybody for such a vivid discussion here.

Niki, this idea of a person who lost a child - a new one by Panagia for me, but - how can I describe it - I feel you are right. I think I have to read more.

Anna, what you wrote, is a great help -  DANKE! - I just think if I can find and name a similar social phenomenon in our culture.

Annemarie, I am not quite sure,  how to answer your question  now, I need some more time (BTW., this "Olgitsa" is a great gift from our Niki).

I am not orthodox, but it's heavy to describe how important for me the words are: "Xaire Maria, kai xaritomeni", just in their original version.

We all realize, I think, they are some words in the New Testament which have a greater power in their original language, and this is Greek. Like this what came under my signature, a quotation from St. Paul, Coloss.3,15.

Dear Ge(e)ske, as you see, this doesn't mean I will not have some words translated well, we  both have simply the same job and this is our "defect", I think.

Olgitsa