Dalaras a Saint?

[Geske 37]

In Cyprus they write it on the walls, I'm told:

ΝΤΑΛΑΡΑΣ = ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ

[francois 4]

ΝΤΑΛΑΡΑΣ = ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ , no doubt about it.

On the other hand, it is absolutely true that music, whatever type, not only Dalaras, of course..., has healing virtues that have been testified by scientists. There's a university in Morocco which has specialized in musicotherapy. I had attended a few explanations here in Lille at a musical congress. Very interesting.

The thing is being scientifically studied anyway, and musicotherapy has existed for centuries... There's no secret whatsoever, no miracles, just psychiatry using musicotherapy. But of course, the West never takes those things seriously (see what I mean? ). Anyway, this post is serious, and I mean every word of it.

I personally am convinced that the West should explore musicotherapy more than it does...

[Oguz 0]

Two years ago,when the turkish earthquake happens,Mr.Ntalaras has made a concert whit two turkish singer from Komothini,for the victims of the earthquake.I did make a videorecord from greek et3 channel.So in this time turkish televisions has made liveconnections to this concert...Turkish Media give an especial importance to this concert.

So if there is a saint,why it shouldn't be Mr.Ntalaras.I hope and i wish a reveange concert in Istanbul for Greek-Turkish friendship.

[franz averstegge 5]

Dalaras a saint??? No ,no he isn't. He is a very very good singer ,he is such a important man, his music helps in so many difficult situations,he has such a great charisma, but he is no saint! Franz

[Micki 1]

He is a warm kind person, who can touch so many people with his music. But I want to say that I never would put responsibility on his shoulders for solving personal problems. Though listening to his music helps me relax, find some rest and than go on again.

And in happier times of course make me feel even happier like it is a confirmation of that.

Micki

[Olga Fendrych 0]

What? A saint? No.... Althought, I remember a question given by some of our friends: Is Dalaras your religion? No, certainly not, and if it would be so, it would be sad. But, I often think about Giorgos Dalaras himself hearing to the song: "Μεσ' στους βιους των αγιων", sometimes relating the text to him. But I remain by "Dalaras-Andropos", and, I admit, I wanted to use that text from Cyprus by our last discussions in the part "People, who don't know Dalaras" as an argument against the problems appearing there.

But I belong to these people who were and are influenced positively by his work, and to these who got rid of some old doubts hearing to his songs.

Not more, not less - but you dare know, one of my angels in a little collection got the name Giorgos, after him. Francesco and Angelo didn't protest against that...

[francois 4]

Dalaras a saint??? No ,no he isn't.  He is a very very good singer ,he is such a important man, his music helps in so many difficult situations,he has such a great charisma, but he is no saint!   Franz

You are right, Franz, and the music of people who know how to use it can indeed be of great help to people who need special treatment, but there are rather complex medical rules which I am unable to develop here, as I am not a musicotherapist.

[Geske 37]

The rules for canonizations are even more complicated.

[francois 4]

Yes, I have warned them not to lose their time with me...

[MarianS 0]

Giorgos was part of the miracle in my personal life

His music is part of my life

I´m happy he´s human

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Marian, how well said. But don't forget, saints are no angels, they are just human (see what Geske wrote about the rules of canonization).

[francois 4]

saints are no angels, they are just human

Olga, saints, according to Christian mythology, are not human, they are no longer men, nor women (See Gospels and other scriptures + some very famous human literature you quoted on the site. Btw, Shakespeare makes fun of it in the greatest play ever written...).

They are the "creations" of idle brains, they do not exist, they are human mythological inventions!!!

My first post in this thread sums up exactly my point on the question raised, anyway.

[soc 1]

knock, knock

[francois 4]

Yes, Soc, exactly, let's listen to him instead of... etc., etc., etc.

[Micki 1]

That's what we all do, listen to him. We are expressing (for those who want) what effect he as on us.

Micki

[francois 4]

Thanks a lot, Melissa for your explanations about your views on the word "saint". I now quite agree with you...

Now, musicotherapy, the idea has come to my mind when I saw you opened this topic yesterday, and I remembered long interesting explanations about it here in Lille a few years ago... I said to myself that I would devote some time to it during the next few weeks and let know our dear community about my findings...

[MarianS 0]

human= a life and touchable

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Francois, I got lost now: what is the difference between an angel and a saint for you? Not the name and the personality? An individual one?

Melissa, yes, thanks, a saint as an extremely good person.... In this meaning I could almost say: yes, I could name Giorgos Dalaras as a saint. A good person. Not only a good singer.

Not because only of his songs, but of his very personal capabilty (I know these days, what I mean, really, is not exaggerated) of making people like me praying grateful, grateful, grateful. And this is one of the best capabilities of saints, I think. Something like:

Megalini i psichi mou ton Kyrio.

[francois 4]

Olga, whatever the difference between a saint and an angel, they have one common denominator, as far as the "religious" terms are concerned: they don't exist but in the imagination of people . (for more detail, read medieval or Renaissance literature, you will be fully informed about saints and angels in the Christian mythology to which you could add the Islamic one which is almost similar...)

As far as the second meaning of "saint" is concerned, see Melissa's definition which is rather good. Nothing religious in it !

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Francois, I did not mean the whole, as you say, Christian or religious mythology, but the definition you gave. Should we continue this topic (a nice one) in a clear way, we have to have clear definition of "being saint" here.

So the reference for the huge literature is not nough, we need more a wise abbreviation in a couple of sentences. If we should discuss the topic in a clear way.

The one thing we got now: Giorgos Dalaras' work is helping in many ways. No doubt. Some of us can claim (me too ), he himself is helping us in certain circumstances. But, he is still not supernatural, he can't help everything we may expect (frankly? τι κριμα...).

One general doubt concerning your words, Francois: if the saints are only a invention of imagination (for me not), we can't continue the topic here at all.

And some of us see in Giorgos Dalaras - or his work - the qualities we can see "mes' stous bious ton agion". If this is so an common opinion in the Community - "heaven will direct it" ( Horatio- Marcellus, Act I, Scene IV).

[francois 4]

Francois, I did not mean the whole, as you say, Christian or religious mythology, but the definition you gave.

Olga, I didn't give any definition of the word "saint".

I gave my clear view in my first post about the subject,

http://www.dalaras.com/forum/index.php?s=2...&f=1&t=821&st=0

discussed it with Melissa and it seems we agreed to agree on the subject, as we seem to have the same view, but of course, no religion here!

[franz averstegge 5]

Melissa I agree with you totaly. He gives us so much with his cordiality in his songs. Every concert is a wonderful experience.

Franz

[francois 4]

OK, let's be clear about this. GD is not supernatural, he is a man all right, no doubt about it. I don't expect him to do anything nor to resolve the world's problems; it is none of his business. As he has said, there is only so much a "tragoudistis" can do. Part of his contributions to the world is his music, and we are all very grateful for that.

But music is only one of the elements of GD. He also basically cares about people (in the world, not just Greek people) and their problems. This, nobody asked him neither forced him. He is even criticized in Greece for being involved in so many things. Only, he cannot stop being involved.

I think this fundamental caring of GD is reflected in his music, allowing him to  understand the various human emotions. In my view, that is why his music enters our heart and soul, because he puts himself in our shoes; we recognize ourselves in his songs. We feel "cleansed" after.

Exactly, Melissa! You had already been very clear about it. Thanks for more detailed explanations....

[Olga Fendrych 0]

Melissa, Franz, thanks, I agree with you so much!

Francois, we have to talk a bit....

Well, it was not me, who gave the title here, "Dalaras a saint". A word "saint" is bound so strongly with religion to me, that I wanted to be sure, what qualities of "sanctity" can be meant here. This is why, Francois, I disagreed with your description of a saint as somebody who is not more human (but an effect of human's imagination).

And, even if no religion can be meant here so exactly, I must say (once more even), Giorgos Dalaras IS a person I pray with gratefullness for. And this is - already - an ability of saints in religious meaning: to make people closer to God.

Of course, that's not the "complete" sanctity how I understand that, so I must have been surprised about such a topic.

And I am still surprised, but I see this is worth discussing.

[francois 4]

Francois, I disagreed with your description of a saint as somebody who is not more human (but an effect of human's imagination).

And, even if no religion can be meant here so exactly, I must say (once more even), Giorgos Dalaras IS a person I pray with gratefullness for. And this is - already -  an ability of saints in religious meaning: to make people closer to God.

Of course, that's not the "complete" sanctity how I understand that, so I must have been surprised about such a topic.

And I am still surprised, but I see this is worth discussing.

Olga, you are mixing up everything again ! I told you that I had said everything in my first post about the subject.

In my opinion, you should also leave the words "saint" and "sanctity": it will help you see things more directly, more like what they are. Your use of them is far too religion-biased, and as we know, religion, which is something very personal and intimate, has never helped people see things properly.